PIC Programmer

[connect21]

I am looking for some simple diagram and software or some inexpensive kit to program PICs. Ideally it could program them "in circuit" as well as out of circuit. I am looking at something that could program the 18Fxxxx family, specifically the 18F4431. <p> Thanks

[philba]

I think this is going to be a hard one as its the software that knows how to program a given device and I didn't see that chip in the support list of the usual suspects of free/shareware programmers.<p>Ideally, one should be able to get an MPLAB compatible programmer for cheap but they run from about $60 and up.<p>Another approach is to get a bootloader burned into the chip and then you don't need a programmer. Some outfits (like glitchbuster) will progam a chip with sw of your choice for a small fee.

[dr_when]

I bought a Microchip "PICkit" starter kit from Mouser for $36 and can program many of their flash based 12 and 14 bit controllers including non-flash like 12c509, etc. The board is a nice demo board with leds and is USB based. Not bad for so few $$$$.<p>Bob

[philba]

Yeah, that is a good starter board though its limited in the number of PICs it supports. He specifically wanted to program an 18F part and the PICkit does not do any of those. I think Microchip is getting away from one of the points that made it a success - availability of really cheap programmers (let 1M flowers bloom...).<p>Its really a shame as the 18F and dsPIC lines are much better processors. IMO, microchip should move to have a single core engine instead of 4 and have a $10 programmer design. Atmel has it right on that point.<p>The 12F and 16F lines are decent enough little chips though.<p>Phil

[connect21]

The reason I wanted to program a 18F is because this microcontroller has an enhanced PWM that can be used to drive a half bridge and you can add to it a dead band to make sure that the two transistor of the bridge dont conduct at the same time and there isn't any of the 16F microcontroller that has that feature.
Thanks

[philba]

Hmmm, amazingly, I just ran across something that might work for you. Basically, its a "clone" of the ICD2 from Microchip. I use quotes because its not even close to a clone but it may just do what you want even if the debugger part doesn't work. The only down side I can see is you will need to get a PIC16F876 programmed. But since it interfaces with MPLAB, you will get pretty broad PIC support.<p>http://home.t-online.de/home/5200546613 ... /main.html<p>I'm considering building this one myself.<p>Phil

[connect21]

Mr. Philba<p> That device looks interesting, it doesn't say if it will work with the 18F family though. As far as programming a 16F877, I have a programmer that works well, I made it from an article, in Poptronics, and it will program pretty much every PIC up to the 16F family.<p> Thanks

[philba]

If its even close to an ICD2 clone, it will program 18F and 30F parts as well as 10F, 12F and 16F...

[lkraemer]

Connect21,
The cheapest programmers I have found are at:
http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php? ... 3771&cat=3&<p>http://www.sparkfun.com
Then go to the Pulldown menu for Programmers,
then pulldown PIC.<p>Also http://www.kitsrus.com/index.html<p>LK

[connect21]

Mr. Philba<p> A little while back, you referred me to a do it yourself PIC programmer from a guy named Lothar Stolz. I built it and it works great. It will program PICs all the way to the 18 family, and the debug function of MPLAB also works. It programs my 18F4431 PIC in about 5 seconds, it works great and it is very cheap to build. It also very flexible, I used a different Op-Amp that was recommended and it worked fine.<p> Thanks for the tip

[Newz2000]

Wow, 5 seconds? Using my jdm to program a 16f877a (and verify) takes 4 - 5 minutes.<p>The original link is gone, but here's his new website: http://www.stolz.de.be/<p>[ September 30, 2005: Message edited by: Matt Nuzum ]</p>

[connect21]

This is the time it takes the programmer to load a small program to the target. I used Lothar's suggested serial cable programmer using JDM's software to load the bootloader in the original programmer's 16F876 and I had a hell of a hard time to get it to program. When I tried the serial cable to program a second 16F876, as a spare, I never got it to work again.

[philba]

Hey, that's great to hear! Glad I could point you in a good direction. and thanks for getting back on that - most people that ask for help never say what happened.<p>load time is dependant on program size so to make it apples to apples, you have to do something like code words per second.

[connect21]

Actually my program is very small, 450 bytes so far, but the other programmer I used took about 30 seconds for the same program.