kronos web site sucks!!!!

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goner19
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kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Wed May 20, 2009 9:19 pm

i bought a dios chip from them a year ago

and i cant raise a soul for some tech support

their contact us link does not work!!!

im not even sure how they processed the order to take m 100$ bucks

can anyone here help me with my com port?
i can not get my computer to talk to the chip to save my life

im really feeling frustrated and ripped off

please help

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MrAl
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by MrAl » Thu May 21, 2009 1:44 am

Hi,

We need more information to help.

First of all, what chip is it?

Second, what are you trying to do exactly?

Be as detailed as possible including anything you think might be relevant.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Thu May 21, 2009 6:34 am

the chip is the Dios Pro. i have the budget board.
the program is the dios complier
i am using a db9 serial port

the problem that i am getting is "upload error'
for some reason the program is not talking to the chip

i have changed the com port ( on the pc) from 20 on down to 0
i have tried both pin 3 and 16 ( on the chip)
the only one that seems to be getting through to the chip is port 3
and again it is giving me up load error...

this is driving me nuts . i know it should work i was able to upload one program way back when i first got the chip. but getting new programs on to the chip has become a problem

please advise

Rach-

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MrAl
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by MrAl » Thu May 21, 2009 8:40 am

Hi again,


When you say "budget board" where is that on their web site?

I was not able to find a data sheet on the site. Do they have a data sheet for the chip there?

I take it they are using flash technology for the programming?

Is there any chance that once you program the chip that the function of some of the pins
changes permanantly?

Is there any chance that the chip went bad?

Is there any chance that the programmer hardware is not working?

Did you try to reinstall the compiler?
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Thu May 21, 2009 8:53 am

http://kronosrobotics.com/xcart/product ... 287&page=1

that should be a link to their budget board....

i doubt the chip is bad in that it will still the last program i installed

i have redownloaded the complier
but i guess i can try it again ..its free and all


the data sheet can be found under Dios its on the top menu bar and comes up as a pdf

thanks again

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MrAl
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by MrAl » Thu May 21, 2009 11:49 pm

Hi again,


Well, the first step in troubleshooting would be to reinstall the software.

After that, it's a matter of hardware where just about anything can go wrong,
but start with the wiring. Make sure the wiring isnt broken inside. I have found
this to be a problem from time to time especially with my keyboard which breaks
now and then and i have to fix the wire by taking it apart and cutting off the old
end and resoldering the wires to the keyboard circuit.

If you cant find any problems with the wiring then perhaps something went wrong
with the programming board. You can check for broken part leads, bad solder
joints, etc. Ideally you could replace the chips one at a time but that probably
isnt possible so you'd have to get a new board.

I asked about the data sheet so i could look at the pinout functions of your chip
but i couldnt find an actual data sheet. The data sheet would talk about the
various pins and what they all do, one at a time, not collectively like "there
are 33 output lines" which doesnt tell me too much. If we can find this data
sheet i might be able to find something.
The main reason is because i want to know if there are any pins that, once
programmed, can interfere with the future programming of the chip. This may
not be the case but it could be so it is worth a quick check.

You talk about pin 3 and pin 16, what are those pins for? What are all the
possible functions for those pins?
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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haklesup
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by haklesup » Fri May 22, 2009 8:13 am

I took a look at the website and what they have is not so much a datasheet as it is an instruction manual (and mostly for the software and carrier boards). Given that the chip is always pictured with a sticker as a label, I would bet they don't actually make that chip. Likely they relabel the chip and package it with their firmware, software and libraries. If you're lucky they didn't grind off the markings before they put the sticker on and you can peel it back and find out what that chip really is. It could be a Microchip PIC.

Page 11 of the first manual notes that if you use a new version of the code, you also need to update the firmware on the chip or you may have problems. Are you using the exact same version as when you did the first program? For that matter, are you using the same PC hardware. I have had trouble with serial devices on later than 486 computers and later than win95. Probably not the issue here but worth a thought.

It is possible to damage the P16, P17 or Reset pins with ESD because they are direct wired to the DB9 connector making them susceptable to ESD or even electrical overstress damage. If these pins got blown, its possible and likely the rest of the chip and pins would still function normally. Can't easily rule out damage to the chip without comparing curve traces of the pins to a known good device. Comparing supply current is also a viable method.

There is a reset pin but its function is not described. It is shown pulled up to VDD, maybe if you pull it down to ground for a moment, it could clear the memory. Need the real datasheet to know or find something in the manuals I missed.

They do have a user forum, have you tried posting there. Its not quite as active as this board but they do have posts less than 1 week old. Don't rant or bad mouth or for sure the factory guys will not reply. I recall another poster who complained about getting bad service and was labeled a trouble maker by the OEM and denied support. http://forum.servomagazine.com/viewtopi ... =1&t=13742

The website dosen't seem that bad, they have lots of documents but you have to realize, telephone or direct email support for customers could have a significant cost since one of those calls could last hours. The price for the product while not insignificant, dosen't seem to include that level of support. Your $100 payed for less than half a day for an engineer and less than 1 hour of NRE. If you're doing everything right, then its likely the chip was damaged. You will have to buy another to be sure.

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Sat May 23, 2009 1:17 am

wow! first off let me say thank you for your indepth probe into my situation! i greatly apperciate your knowlegde and understanding!!!!

secondly let me say i would not be this frustrated if there was not a real problem

thirdly, when one buys a product, such as this, where there is a large learning curve, that person does research and picks the company that looks like it has the best resourses aviliable. when the support falls grossly short , one might have a reason to be a little upset.

forth , their web site sucks!!! i have been trying to post but the page will not all it for some stupid reason. even after creating an account i dont have the right to post. and yes the posts are as old as a open bag of dorritos left on a bus bench!

fifth the chip my be bad but i would hate to give them one money penny if they leave their customers out in the cold!

sixth i did get a message about updating the software at one point. does that mean the freeware is only good for a limited number of uploads? i have bought a parallax basic stamp and am going to start working with that instead. but i would like to think that the money i blew on the dios chip and its accersories was not money wasted. and if it is a microchip ,which i have a feeling it is , are there resoures out there to help me get started?. i did have to break out my old computer to find a db9 port. but it is runing xp. i bought parallax's usb to seiral converter today. i hope it works w the dios as well.

so right now im not sure if i should buy another chip of pay for the upgraded software. please advise.....

A-

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Sat May 23, 2009 1:27 am

ill try the upgrade thing in the AM
i think its free
thanks for pointing that out!

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MrAl
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by MrAl » Sat May 23, 2009 2:03 am

Hi there,


Most of us here probably have had the same experience at one time or another and know that
yes it can be very frustrating. It's at that point that we have to be patient and take one
step at a time to try to get up and running again. The main procedure is to try one thing
at a time starting with the least expensive first. Eventually, if we are persistent, we get there.

It also helps to have some test equipment, probably at least a volt meter and a digital
logic probe even a cheap one. That way you can hunt down signals and see where the
path ends and possibly be able to identify the component.

After looking at that site i can say that i would not want to use one of their chips. For
one thing when i use a chip i want a real data sheet for it, not some second hand writeup
describing various after-the-fact functions or whatever.
It's good to stick with the bigger manufacturers where you can get support almost right
away and usually large forum just for their product where people post on a daily basis.
Microchip of course comes to mind right away because they have pretty good stuff, and
their data sheets are pretty good too, although not perfect either.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Sun May 24, 2009 10:17 am

wow this is the site i should have come to for help a long time ago!!!

thank you to everyone who has posted here

i peeled back the sticker and it is a microchip chip #pic18f4620-i/p
so i guess i need to find the data sheet for that.

i do have an occilliscope but i am still learning to use it
so far i kind of just use it for a expensive continuity tester. but i ll get better w it in time.
how do i go about "comparing curve traces?"

thanks again guys!!!

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Sun May 24, 2009 1:11 pm

so i reinstalled the compiler...
same upload error

but if i got to the ulitity terminal the red light on my new usb connector flash in sync with a series of <0> that show up on the screen

this leads me to believe that the chip is some how talking to the comp
but something is a foul...

a new chip is 35$ .... for that i will just invest more time in my parallax basic stamp and throw the dios to the scrap pile...

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MrAl
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by MrAl » Mon May 25, 2009 3:41 am

Hi again,


Im not sure if this applies to this case, but you know all USB to Serial connectors/cables are
not the same. Some of them only put out 5 volts when others put out 11 volts or higher.
The difference is that the communications both ways or just one way may not work.
If you have a serial port maybe it would be better to use that for now and test with the
new cable later.
Again, this may not apply if your cable is already putting out the right logic levels.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

goner19
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by goner19 » Mon May 25, 2009 9:01 am

i am aware of the usb to serial imcompabilty issues. im just looking for anything that might help solve my problem...and of course it didnt!

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philba
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Re: kronos web site sucks!!!!

Post by philba » Mon May 25, 2009 9:22 am

A related subject - I don't understand why people use Kronos and Basic Stamp. Sure, it's nicely packaged up but it locks you into an expensive solution. Maybe it's ok for a trainer but for me the point of microcontrollers is to build interesting devices, they are VERY expensive solutions. For about the same initial entry price, one can build up the skills necessary to develop PIC or AVR based solutions. The components are about 1/10th the cost.

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