Water Leak

This is the place for any magazine-related discussions that don't fit in any of the column discussion boards below.
Post Reply
User avatar
Lenp
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Water Leak

Post by Lenp »

We recently had a bad experience with a plumbing leak and I have decided it's time to do something proactive and install a leak detection and shut off system. There are many commercially available systems, and they use a motor driven water valve. I also want to also add a shut off for the well pump so It doesn't pump all the water from the county into our basement!.

The plan is to DIY the system at a great savings, and monitor the most critical areas with hardwired sensors. I plan on using a micro to monitor the sensors, indicate the location, shut the valve and open the pump circuit.
So, before I get in water over my head, figuratively, any thoughts or advice going forward would be appreciated.
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)
User avatar
haklesup
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Jose CA
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by haklesup »

Check out this one, super easy to install monitor https://streamlabswater.com/ they may have a valve eventually too
User avatar
Lenp
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Lenp »

Thanks for that info, but that product is just ogging water consumption. If you're on the other side of the world, you get notified that you have a leak by telling you the horror of how many gallons you can expect to cleanup when you get back! Not good!

I want to shut the system down when a leak is detected; a message can always be be sent later if needed as an add-on feature. There are other companies that provide hard wired and wireless systems that shut the flow off but their cost is high considering what basic technology is needed and most still need hacking to shut off the well pump. I am not into that wifi-ing the world thinking. There's way too many loose ends to worry about for stability. Maybe in the future stability will increase and then you can bet you house on it, but not now!
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)
User avatar
Externet
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Mideast USA
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Externet »

Hi Len. Differential pressure sensing finds difficulty in discerning a leak from normal water usage.

Running a bare wire pair to sense moisture, attached/taped along the belly of all accessible pipes, could sense leaks to shut-off a supply solenoid valve.

Additionally, human occupancy sensor(s) in the dwelling could latch shut off a normally closed mains supply solenoid or pump when you are away.
- Abolish the deciBel ! -
User avatar
Lenp
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Lenp »

Not thinking of any pressure scheme at all. There are too many variables in a well system (30-60 psi) so I am only considering physical water on a sensor, like interlaced foil on a pcb. I would put a high value resistor at the end of the foil pattern so a wire break could be detected. A micro's ADC input should be able to resolve normal, open or water conduction conditions quite easily.

As a side note, a lifetime ago I built a very primitive water detector using a bit of wire, a wooden spring type clothespin, two thumbtacks, a funnel and an aspirin tablet. I'll bet you can visualize that design :cool:
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)
User avatar
Externet
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Mideast USA
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Externet »

Oh, yes, the aspirin method... but that is when you already have a puddle... right at the aspirin location.
I mentioned differential pressure sensing as a method to avoid.
Would you be happy with a pair of parallel bare wires taped on the bottom of pipes ? Anywhere a leak develops should reach the wires somewhere, until Murphy shows up... If the leak is on a vertical pipe, should anyway trickle down to the wires, to the typical circuit used to sense moisture on floors...
- Abolish the deciBel ! -
User avatar
Lenp
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Lenp »

My enhanced sensitivity water detector had a funnel that provided a nominal 1000:1 sensitivity gain!
(collecting the water and directing it to the tablet!)

Two bare wires on copper pipe? Well maybe a roll of ANCIENT 'twinlead' TV antenna wire with many skinned sections....no, still too much fuss.

Yes, pipe leaks can occur but I think most leaks, like electrical faults, do not happen midway, but at the points of use. Appliances are the most likely leak source; water heater, dishwasher,clothes washer, refrigerator, laundry tub, humidifier, well pressure and storage tanks, water conditioners....to name a few. If those were covered I think it would be the largest benefit.


Narrow PCB sensors could be strapped to the bottom of the pipe with a piece foam, or absorbent paper, to electrically insulate the foil pattern from the copper is also an option if a pipe leak was a concern, but condensation may be the bug in any under-the-pipe scheme!

At the end, I think leaks are much like lightning. They do what they want!
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)
User avatar
Externet
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Mideast USA
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Externet »

For copper pipe.... would have to be single wire in paper/cotton insulation ? Condensation... a good place for Murphy to lurk from...
Tackling so many appliances would be very elaborated ! A bunch of high gain funnels hosed to the aspirine...
- Abolish the deciBel ! -
User avatar
Lenp
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Lenp »

Most of the critical areas are clustered around the laundry area, and the kitchen is above. It's easy wire access and around 100 feeit of wire for all.
Second floor will probably be skipped since plumbing access is difficult. The panel could have many zones but probably only a couple are really needed. Laundry, kitchen, well and HVAC with a spare. Using an end of line resistor, sensors can be safely daisy chained with low risk of failure.

I would place the sensor board foil side down on the floor with some absorbent paper between the foil and floor to keep insects off the foil and to help wick water onto the foil for better contact.
Yes, pipe condensation would be a weak point, causing interrupted sleep!

Thanks for this dialogue!
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)
User avatar
Janitor Tzap
Posts: 1707
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by Janitor Tzap »

Hey Lenp,

Sorry to resurrect this old post....
But, I found a circuit that you mite be able to modify for you to use.
Image
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/ ... mber=C7412


Signed: Janitor Tzap
User avatar
haklesup
Posts: 3136
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Jose CA
Contact:

Re: Water Leak

Post by haklesup »

BTW, the Streamlabs link I posted above now does show the in line water flow sensor with integrated valve and auto shut off feature. They use ultrasonic flow sensing and have proprietary firmware to identify small leaks. This wasn't yet available when I first posted. Its the same company that makes the SharkBite plumbing fittings.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Amazon [Bot], Bing [Bot] and 2 guests