Demise of telephone landline

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Joseph
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Demise of telephone landline

Post by Joseph » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:41 am

The phone company is raising the charges for copper connectivity. Landline + DSL lite is now a costly $66. Landline service is getting almost expensive as cell service. Has the problem affected you, and how have you coped? The web of landlines on the telephone poles has always been reliable, the phone still worked 95% of the time if the electricity was out from a storm.

The phone company is shafting landline users, seemingly trying to force them to cable, cell phones, or what they won't explicitly say is their real hope, fiber. I don't watch TV so the situation is a bad deal for me.

I recall how Internet (broadband) over power line (BPL) was supposed to become an option, yet it failed to develop. Now there isn't enough consumer protection to keep the customer from being cheated.

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VernGraner
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by VernGraner » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:36 am

Joseph wrote:The phone company is raising the charges for copper connectivity. Landline + DSL lite is now a costly $66. Landline service is getting almost expensive as cell service. Has the problem affected you, and how have you coped? The web of landlines on the telephone poles has always been reliable, the phone still worked 95% of the time if the electricity was out from a storm.

The phone company is shafting landline users, seemingly trying to force them to cable, cell phones, or what they won't explicitly say is their real hope, fiber. I don't watch TV so the situation is a bad deal for me.

I recall how Internet (broadband) over power line (BPL) was supposed to become an option, yet it failed to develop. Now there isn't enough consumer protection to keep the customer from being cheated.
For what its worth, I moved to a VoIP landline via Time Warner and I am thinking about letting it go aswell. The only calls that come in on that line are scam calls from overseas trying to tell me my machine is infected with virus

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/safety/ ... scams.aspx

"Google Reps" offering any number of amazing things.. all scams like this:

https://support.google.com/faqs/answer/2952493?hl=en

And of course, scam charities from any place you can imagine:

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/features/f ... rity-scams

and last, but not least, robocalls from political candidates since they are "immune" from the "do not call" list!

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... l-registry

Relevant quote from above link:

"If I register my number, will ALL unwanted calls stop?

No, the Do Not Call Registry prohibits sales calls. You still may receive political calls, charitable calls, debt collection calls, informational calls, and telephone survey calls."

So, I wouldn't mourn the loss of a land line myself much! :grin:

Vern
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Janitor Tzap
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by Janitor Tzap » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:40 pm

Joseph wrote:The phone company is raising the charges for copper connectivity. Landline + DSL lite is now a costly $66.
I wish mine was that cheap. :(
I'm getting reamed for about $100 a month for Phone + 3Megbit DSL!
Joseph wrote:Landline service is getting almost expensive as cell service. Has the problem affected you, and how have you coped? The web of landlines on the telephone poles has always been reliable, the phone still worked 95% of the time if the electricity was out from a storm.
It's only been the last 6 years that the main junction box for my area got a battery backup.
Thus, before that, if a main feeder line went down, so did the phone lines in the area.
Joseph wrote:The phone company is shafting landline users, seemingly trying to force them to cable, cell phones, or what they won't explicitly say is their real hope, fiber. I don't watch TV so the situation is a bad deal for me.
Actually my phone company wants me to buy into they're "Bundled Package".
This is; Phone+DSL+TV all on the same over stressed connection.
That at best is 2.6Megbits but is not stable. :x

I have talked to a phone lineman, and he said that hopefully a 6Megbit upgrade is in the works for my area.
If a government funding bill comes through.


Signed Janitor Tzap

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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by gerty » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:44 pm

We get phone, tv, internet from our phone co-op. They won't connect you for just tv or internet, you must get a landline. We had fiber installed when it became available last year, runs pretty good.. My wife pays the bills so I don't remember exactly what it all costs, seems like $140 or so.
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Lenp
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by Lenp » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:04 pm

Remember when they say it is good for you, it is beter for them.
VOIP, in all flavors, fiber, and wireless sometimes have trouble with data like fax and credit terminals, not to mention incompatibalities with alarm dialers. Sometimes, that is learned too late.
Verizon is investing as little as possible in the copper infrstructure, and that is even admitted by their technicians.

The rural area where I am, it is a rural area, and for years we suffered poor connections, static, and hum as a routine quality of service. Finally after complaints to the Public Service Commission, I was reconnected to a SLIC.
This is a roadside cabinet that is fed from the C.O. by fiber circuits and it converts the fiber to standard POTS metallic circuit to your locaton. It was a 100%+ improvement in quality and stability over the long haul of copper it replaced. But, it is line powered with battery backup, so in extended power outages, if the Verizon truck with the generator can't get there, it goes down. Actually, any service that is not supplied with power from the C.O. has the same shortfall. VOIP, Wireless and Fiber all rely on local power, your power, to work.

Cost vs benefit isn't always a balanced equation!
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by haklesup » Mon May 02, 2016 11:01 am

That cost sure has gone up since I abandoned the twisted pair for a coax. If you remove all the premium channels, I might be paying a bit more than yours but not all that much. Recently I got a new leased modem upgrade, I'm humming along at 200MBPS down and 12M up.

I don't think the price is going up to get anyone to move to other things, quite the opposite, so many have already moved, the cost to maintain that wire has gone way up for those who are left. I've heard no rumors of a future without twisted pair POTS nor have I heard of any housing developments that lack that wire but maybe there are some somewhere. In fact, many places especially apartments, lack cable and that's the niche where satellite fits in best

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VernGraner
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by VernGraner » Tue May 03, 2016 1:40 pm

Guess I'm spoiled speed-wise. :) I work from home so rely on high speed Internet. Here's a speed test I just ran about 5 mins ago :grin: Of course, I am supposed to be on their "ultimate" plan with speeds up to 300mbps, maybe I should complain about the speed..? :cool:

Image

For the record, I live near Austin TX. :)

Vern
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by dacflyer » Wed May 04, 2016 9:18 am

your speed test might be more accurate is no one else is on the same node...
also depends a lot on where your pinging to for the test,,
i did a speed test to a hand full of different areas, some were fast,
and some were so slow that they timed out..go figure...all depends on the host set up.

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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by MrAl » Thu May 05, 2016 6:50 am

Hello there,

Some years ago i vowed to never give up my copper line but then some years after that i was offered a "good deal" to convert to all Fios. What came after that was just nuts.

There is a wall box and a TV box and a router in the house where once there was just a TV box. Cables running to all of those from the wall box, a Fios fiber optic cable line from the pole to the wall box.

First, the wall box started beeping early in the morning, about 2am here. What happened is the battery backup battery started to fail the internal test that the wall box does on it, which means it had to be replaced.
Replaced it, same thing happened again about a year later.
Finally, the whole wall box died and i lost ALL service, including internet, TV, and yes, phone. With no phone you cant call Verizon to tell them about it, lucky i had a cell.
The guy came out to fix the box and almost didnt replace the whole thing (there is top and bottom sections). He replaced the top and i told him to stick around until it was tested. It of course failed, so he had to replace the bottom too.

That, and a new battery helped, but i still miss the copper line when the power goes out. That would work about 99.9 percent of the time when the power went out because the power for that came from the tel co not us. The battery backup is supposed to last for 8 hours talk time, but it's more like 1 hour, but if the wall box blows out then there is no talk time.

The internet service is faster than the copper line and DSL, and the TV service is a little better than cable. So there are pluses and minuses here. I still miss the copper line however because it was much more reliable.

The phone company has an agenda of their own most of the time, and they find ways to force the user to switch over.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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Joseph
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by Joseph » Wed May 11, 2016 9:19 am

I get these electric rate promotions in the mail from third parties, yet electricity, fortunately, is a good value already. I think it is for telephone and Internet where we need good deals to be offered. I'm glad that electric power, being a critical utility, is priced pretty well. However phone and Internet are quite essential services these days also. I'd like to see the government get more involved in the regulation of interpersonal electronic connectivity, for the public good.

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haklesup
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by haklesup » Wed May 11, 2016 2:27 pm

There are good reasons Electricity rates are finally falling after decades of increase. It's not all due to Govt tinkering but incentives for green energy across the spectrum of the market have been effective as have policies encouraging the domestic oil production (however controversial) In such a critical infrastructure as the electrical grid, the govt has precedent but still normal market forces prevail as we are seeing with the demise of OPEC (finally, relief from foreign price fixing). There are so many more ways to make electricity than there were in say 1976 (oil crisis and the first notable attack by OPEC)

The internet is a very different market, much newer, far less mature and burdened with more than price and distribution without a foreign cartel mucking up the water, its almost all American made (at least the part we use). The cost of frequently upgrading network speeds is born by all of us. Public support for govt regulation is limited and many .com companies would argue that market forces alone are sufficient to regulate this still highly competitive market. In the future if internet speeds ever saturate such that hardware upgrades slow down and networks have penetrated every corner of the world, then we may see a flattening of pricing and pressure from regulators to stop unjustified increases.

BTW Phone prices are regulated heavily as evidenced by all the taxes (like universal lifeline) but those low income people can qualify for low to free phones even cellular thanks to the Govt. (mainly the democrats- I think, by reputation).

http://www.freegovernmentcellphones.net/states
http://www.obamaphone.com/get-obama-phone
http://www.cheapinternet.com/

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Joseph
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by Joseph » Sat May 14, 2016 7:14 pm

I'm on lifeline and I use it for my landline because since I don't go out much, I don't need a cell phone much. My cell phone expense is about $11 every 4 months for the cheapest service I could find, pageplus service. So it makes more sense to apply my lifeline to my landline so that I can keep it and my DSL lite.

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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by gunter » Tue May 17, 2016 9:31 pm

Perhaps we can think of the copper pair in a new way. Don't know of too many homes that even utilize them anymore with the advent of the cell networks. But they can still carry current. low voltage emergency lighting during storms, ect perhaps. I am confident the gurus here can come up with a million ways to utilize a copper pair. The copper infrastructure is already in place why not utilize it.
Always treat every repair as if it was your own.

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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by Lenp » Wed May 18, 2016 5:29 am

Don't bank on the telco lines to carry more than a couple of ma. at most. The lines are small gauge wire with perhaps miles of length. You can't judge the system wire size by an overhead house drop. That wire is usually copper clad steel, made to be self supporting, without a messenger wire. Once it terminates it drops down in wire size. Even if the lines were disconnected from the switching system, and just battery voltage was applied, if everyone used the full available power on the lines, the system would fail. Standard phones draw no current when not in use, and the present system design prevents everyone from being online at the same time.

The system's insulation rating is not adequate, nor safe, for higher voltages so that's not practical. It's actually pretty amazing considering the aging system structure and narrow bandwidth, that they ever got standard modems, and DSL, to work as well (or poor) as it does. Your phone line is often a lot more than just two simple wires. It has repeaters (telco jargon for amplifiers), pair gain devices that multiplex lines, equalizers, loading coils plus a slew of other special devices just to keep the system working as well as it does.

The real issue is that the copper wired infrastructure is aging and much of it could be near seventy years old. To eliminate the repair and replacement costs, they are pushing other services that, when bundled together, give them a higher per mile revenue with less maintenance. Copper wire, much like the railroad telegraph system, is doomed by a flash of fiber optic light, and is headed into our communications history.


But....I still like it :grin:

As a footnote: Most telephone companies are regulated by a 'public service commission', which helps to control rates. The cable industry is largely unregulated since they originally were not considered 'communications' companies and their rates are are market based and non-regulated. Our government is lagging way behind in it's technological awareness!
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Lenp
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Re: Demise of telephone landline

Post by Lenp » Wed May 18, 2016 5:52 am

VernGraner wrote:
Joseph wrote: "If I register my number, will ALL unwanted calls stop?
No, the Do Not Call Registry prohibits sales calls. You still may receive political calls, charitable calls, debt collection calls, informational calls, and telephone survey calls."
Vern
The real problem is that the DNC (Do Not Call) list is a pit bull with no teeth. Vary few telemarketers are ever fined, so most keep up the onslaught. By dialing sequentialy, they hit every number, so the list is useless. 'Rachel' the popular robo gal from 'Card Services' must have made millions of calls, and she just keeps going. Often the caller ID is spoofed with calls popping up from all corners of the country, and now I have been getting MY name and number as the calling party, neat trick!

Many rogue telemarketers and scammers don't care about the DNC list. On one occasion when I told a caller that she was violating the DNC and she said " I 'don't give a .... about the U.S. I'm calling from Canada'

Since they make money from the gullible, and senior population, they just keep going. The only method to stop them is to choke the money pipe.

If I have the time and inclination, I perform a public service by playing with them to see how long I can keep them online. :smile:
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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