Second hard drive

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L. Daniel Rosa
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Second hard drive

Post by L. Daniel Rosa » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm

I'm trying to reformat and install stuff on a laptop hard drive with my gateway/w2k. The hardware installer sees that it's there, the BIOS sees it just fine too- but I can't get at it. What gives?

dyarker
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by dyarker » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:44 am

FDISK ????

It's been a long time since I last used fdisk, so I won't try to coach you in it's use. Just be careful not to wipe out the primary drive.

Cheers,
Dale Y

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MrAl
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by MrAl » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:30 am

Hi,

With a brandy new hard drive i have to complete the following two steps before i can
use it for Windows:

1. Partition it (either one partition that takes up the whole drive, or more than one)
2. Format it (to FAT32 or NTFS usually).

For #1 it is possible to partition it into several drives like C:, D:, E:, etc., or just make
it one big drive C: and that's it.
Many people prefer to have one big drive C: these days, but i find it is faster to defrag
smaller drives, especially one that has the operating system installed. Thus for say a
300GB drive if it is formated for three drives 100GB each (approximately) the first drive
will be C:, and that would have the op sys installed on it. Later, after the system is
used for several weeks the main drive that gets fragmented is the C: drive, and defragging
100GB is a LOT faster than having to defrag 300GB if the C: drive was taking up the
entire drive space being the only drive letter.
With three drives C:, D:, and E: for example, the op sys is on C:, and that is the drive
that gets fragmented the worst because it has the op sys on it and the op sys is
constantly writing and erasing files and that is what causes fragmentation.
You can use drives D and E to store your long term files on and they will hardly, if ever,
need defragging. The way i see it is if the op sys is on drive C and the files are also
stored on C then sometimes the defrag program has to move long term files around too,
which doesnt make any sense. By storing them on a separate volume, they never
have to be moved which saves a LOT of time...really a lot too.
I did several of my drives with 30GB partitions and with a bigger drive 60GB partitions
and wow the defrag is so fast it's amazing.
The other interesting thing is that a bigger drive tends to be also faster (a bigger physical
drive that is, not a bigger partition). Thus usually a 500GB drive is faster than a 250GB drive.
With smaller partitions (say 60GB each) the small partitions also are faster on a 500GB drive
so that means partitions can be a bit bigger for bigger drives and still get decent defrag
completion times.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

L. Daniel Rosa
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by L. Daniel Rosa » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:19 pm

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately I'm still at square zero.

The Physical Hardware (tm) is plugged and pulling power from the supply, humming softly. I go to control panel and tell it to install new hardware, which tells me that I have two (count 'em on the list, they're both there by some string that's also printed on the label) hard drives on one IDE controller, and one CD-ROM on the other IDE controller. There's no conflict because the second drive is jumpered to CS and on the slave position on the cable.

I go to My Computer, and look at how many cool gadgets there are. I find A: 3.5" floppy, C: Local Disk, D: Compact Disc, Control Panel. Hmm, only one hard drive.

I download "superfdisk" (couldn't find ordinary fdisk, maybe this is a big problem), install and run it. It gives me the typically uselessly flashy screen telling me how great it is. I select the only option: make floppy. Da dee dum, some gauge filling up until "Failure, could not complete floppy."

I also tried booting with the only bootable floppy I have on hand, 98. It starts up just fine, but can't see any hard drives. Not immediately useful.


So what can I do to take this hard drive and make it a bootable device for a different computer which will not boot from a floppy?

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reloadron
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by reloadron » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:09 pm

L. Daniel Rosa wrote:I'm trying to reformat and install stuff on a laptop hard drive with my gateway/w2k. The hardware installer sees that it's there, the BIOS sees it just fine too- but I can't get at it. What gives?
OK, let me see if I have this right. You have a laptop HDD and with an adapter you have that HDD connected to a Gateway Desktop PC running Windows 2000 correct? When you boot the Gateway you see this second HDD in the BIOS correct? However, once booted into Windows 2000 if you look in My Computer you don't see the laptop drive correct?

I am not 100% on this as I no longer run Windows 2K but let's try something. In Windows 2000 after a boot Right Click My Computer and choose Manage. I think Windows 2K has that feature. Now click to expand Storage or like in the left pane. This is where I forget but working in there expand items on the left and see if you find your drive on the right pane. If you see the drive in the left pane then RIGHT CLICK the drive and choose Format and follow the prompts.

You can also format from a dos prompt using the Windows 98 boot floppy but that gets tricky as if you use the wrong command line you will format the OS HDD in your Gateway. Try what I suggested. If that works out and the drive begins a Format after that format then look for the HDD in My Computer.

<EDIT> OK, right click My Computer and choose Manage. Click to expand STORAGE in the left pane. Now double click on either Disk Managment or Logical Drives, look for your added HDD in the right pane after things load. If you see the drive in the right pane right click the drive and choose Format. Let me know if that works. </EDIT>
So what can I do to take this hard drive and make it a bootable device for a different computer which will not boot from a floppy?
Where exactly are you trying to go with this and what exactly are you trying to do? Getting the added HDD formatted and recognised in the Gateway is one thing but then what?

Ron

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kheston
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by kheston » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:08 am

Knoppix and SysRescCd are free Linux distributions that boot from your CDRom. Each comes with "parted" or "gparted" that can be used to create and format NTFS partitions. I would try downloading the ISO for one of them (Knoppix is a fully-functional Linux desktop, SysRescCd is more of a utility) and seeing if you can format the new drive with it. You may have better luck this way than you did with you Win98 startup disk.

Also, but highly unlikely, if your laptop is old enough the BIOS may not like the PATA interface hardware interface or default settings of the new hard disk. Some time ago, I had to load a utility distributed with a Western Digital drive I purchased that allowed me to change the firmware settings on the drive itself to ones more compatible with older machines before the BIOS would "see" it. Look through the doco that came with your disk, perhaps you need to do something similar.

HTH
Kurt - SF Bay

L. Daniel Rosa
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by L. Daniel Rosa » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:26 am

Thanks for the further input guys. The "manage" option didn't do it, but the '98 boot disk did. I only managed to reformat one of the two I have- the other wouldn't "fix". Between the two of them, when the big one is attached to the laptop I'm interrogated for a password. Maybe the little one is so messed up the computer figures there's nothing there to protect.

Thanks for the heads-up on the potential interface problem too. I'm down to about two more options with the laptop now. If I can't get around the password I won't be able to get into the BIOS, and it won't boot from anything except the hard drive. Even the floppy must be the specific one for this model, and then it tells me that the power management settings will not allow it to do it's job.

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reloadron
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by reloadron » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:31 am

L. Daniel Rosa wrote:Thanks for the further input guys. The "manage" option didn't do it, but the '98 boot disk did. I only managed to reformat one of the two I have- the other wouldn't "fix". Between the two of them, when the big one is attached to the laptop I'm interrogated for a password. Maybe the little one is so messed up the computer figures there's nothing there to protect.

Thanks for the heads-up on the potential interface problem too. I'm down to about two more options with the laptop now. If I can't get around the password I won't be able to get into the BIOS, and it won't boot from anything except the hard drive. Even the floppy must be the specific one for this model, and then it tells me that the power management settings will not allow it to do it's job.
When do you get asked for a password? Here is what I am thinking. If you are prompted for a password on boot when that drive is connected then maybe the system is trying to boot from that drive. Now if the drive had an operating system on it in another system and the system it is now in is trying to boot from that drive then I can see where it would prompt for a password. I would check the boot order in the BIOS and see if the BIOS is pointing to that drive to boot from.

There are other bootable media that will read password off HDDs. Ophcrack is a good tool that comes in a downlo0ad and is bootable once you take the ISO download and burn it to a disk. Try the Live CD version. Anyway that may help.

Ron

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haklesup
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by haklesup » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:20 am

What brand is that HDD? Look for setup tools on the website of that manufacturer. Also I can't recall ever using the CS jumper setting. I have always used Master or Slave.

L. Daniel Rosa
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by L. Daniel Rosa » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:50 pm

I would check the boot order in the BIOS and see if the BIOS is pointing to that drive to boot from.
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I didn't speak clearly enough. Without the password _nothing_ happens. No BIOS access, no exceptions. If I could access the BIOS I would have used the bootable linux install CD to reformat the hard drive.

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CeaSaR
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by CeaSaR » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:59 pm

So, is it a BIOS password or a HDD password? Still kinda fuzzy on that.

What happens if you take the HDD out completely and try to boot from floppy/CD/DVD?
If you still get the password question it is BIOS and you'll need more help than I can give.

Weird. You would think that a fresh install of an OS would bypass most HDD password locks.
I'm talking from a real Windoze/Linux/whatever OS, not a restore disc. I had a computer given
to me by a co-worker's spouse that saved it from his old company's trash heap. Had 2000 on
it, but couldn't remember the password. Wiped it clean with a real Win98 install disc. Couple
of updates and it flies right along...

CeaSaR
Hey, what do I know?

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MrAl
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by MrAl » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:51 am

Hi,


This seems a little unclear to me too.

Is it the bios password that you dont have? In that case you have to visit some site that has
the back door passwords to bypass the user's main password for the bios for that motherboards
bios. That will allow you to get into the bios setup screen, if that's what you want to do.
You can also clear CMOS with a temporary jumper on the motherboard.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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reloadron
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by reloadron » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:41 pm

L. Daniel Rosa wrote:I'm trying to reformat and install stuff on a laptop hard drive with my gateway/w2k. The hardware installer sees that it's there, the BIOS sees it just fine too- but I can't get at it. What gives?
I am clueless :???: . Looking at the initial post I assumed (wrongly) that the poster was trying to reformat a laptop hard drive with it installed in another Windows 2000 computer. I questioned that in my post that followed. Additionally, the original post makes reference to the BIOS seeing this drive. Now I am totally clueless as to what is going on or what exactly the original poster is trying to get done. Beats me?

Ron

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Janitor Tzap
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Re: Second hard drive

Post by Janitor Tzap » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:20 pm

Daniel,

Are you trying to gain access to the BIO's on the Gateway Computer?
With the Windows 2000 on it?

If that is the case.....
Dig out your users manual for the Mother Board, and look for the "CMO's LOCK" Jumper.
It will be some where close to the "CMO's RESET" Jumper.

The "LOCK" Jumper is there so some one can't alter the settings after the computer has been assembled.
It's kind of a protection from malicious software that can alter the BIO's settings, or write itself into the CMOs.

You will need to open up the computer case to access it.
Had a friend who had a Gateway that he was always doing upgrades too.
Or he was tweaking settings in the CMO's.
He finally got tired of having to open up the case every time he needed, or wanted
to make a change to the CMO's, and wired a toggle switch to the "LOCK" Jumper.

Make sure the Hard Drive is plugged into the Second EIDE on the Hard Drive cable.
With the "LOCK" Jumper off.
Start the computer.
Use the F2, or DEL key to get into the BIO's CMO's Settings.
Try to "Auto Detect" the second hard drive.
Once you have the hard drive settings into the BIO's CMO's, save the settings.
Shut off the computer, and move the "LOCK" Jumper to ON.
Now restart the computer.
If all went well, the second drive will be seen, and ready to be formated.


Signed: Janitor Tzap

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