Solar panel sleight of hand

[Chris Smith]

Cooling down a roof from the shade effect would benefit the home and surrounding area [and the world] as less energy would be needed inside the home, which is pumped outside to keep it cool when it heats up, especially from tar or dark colored roofs. <p>Roofs and tar roads are already artificial heat producers to the environment while solar cells cuts down this number simply by color absorption alone. <p>We have already invaded the natural surroundings so we cant compare it to what yesterday might have been like, its too late for that. <p>What we must consider is which roof heats up the surrounding area the least, and solar as it stands is better then conventional roofs for color absorption alone. <p>There is no such thing as a solar panel that cools down the surrounding area, at best it will be less than what we have at present. At worst, it would be the same<p> And like everything else it absorbs energy, and then re-radiates it back into the environment in this case in the form of electricity or work. But work, is only rented, and so if heating up the earth, or moving a armature along the way, the sun still strikes earth with the same amount of energy, and going through a motor [heat] to get there is still the same amount BTUS hitting earth.<p> Our biggest fear here is not absorption, it reflection back into space, because if we get good at that, which solar isn’t, than we send all the suns heat back into space.<p> Solar wouldn’t work for this because if it was good at that, no energy would be produced. And besides, we already off set any number loss from solar by all the parking lots and roads we have built. The only impact we have made so far, is a negative. Solar can reduce or off set all of our screw ups simply by having less impact than our brilliant and non considered ways to date of paving over the world with shopping malls and parking lots.

[ian]

Congratulations Chris, you almost make sense here. However............your psychotic passion for solar panels is making you say the opposite of the truth......again. <p>If you wanted to get into the heat effect of roofs it would be far far cheaper, and more efficient, and less costly to use a more reflective roof tile, compounded with more insulation in the attic. You don't need a solar panel to reduce the environmental heating effect of roofs. In fact, like you said, the better the solar panel the worse the effect gets.

[Chris Smith]

Which produce ZERO energy gain. <p>Solar collects other wise wasted sunlight, and pays down the national energy debt in the bargain. Nice of you to dissect the facts into a net loss, ....and the purpose was? <p>I guess you want to support the arabs, after all you haven’t come up with why it actually will work, and why we should be doing it. <p>Instead you focus on solar reflection, and leave out the benefit of regaining from that loss, as if you hate solar?<p> Instead of wasting time with negatives, spend your next year or two coming up with why it works, and how we need to proceed. <p>There is no down side to solar, that isn’t already off set by something else we do stupid already.

[peter-f]

(no, actually the point ian makes, and you seem to support without getting that far is: )<p>A combined solar-PV and Solar-IR panel needs development... use the PV part for electric... the other for heat collection.

[jwax]

Follow the money- Does this help explain an anti-solar position for Canada?
http://www.capp.ca/raw.asp?x=1&dt=PDF&dn=70740

[Deal]

Chris Smith has been doing heavy lifting of logic over interesting insular head in sand anti-govt freaks who fantascize that we in USA live in a techno-dome and have all the time in the world to pick and chose among technologies. World economies are exploding with eager workers who will underprice our productivity in less comfortable conditions. I'm surprised to read Dean Huster's comments. We don't have luxury of comparison of manufacturing fumes or cost of telephone poles. We need smart leaders who can accept furtue conditions and help our neighbor workers fit into world-wide future.

[ian]

Yeah, right. I bet almost every pro-solar dope here, including Chris, doesn't have a significant solar panel system. Do you know why I doubt it?
Because solar is so expensive.
As for importing oil from Canada, again, I recommend better technologies than solar for reducing dependency on oil. In fact solar wouldn't
reduce the US dependence on oil by even a marginal percentage, as I said before, oil is the last resort of electrical generation.
How about more insulation? Better appliances?
Wind? Geothermal?
All of the above are far, far more cost effective than solar.

[wolfcreek]

How does solar pay down the national debt?

[Chris Smith]

Every dollar produced from solar, is one dollar less spent using oil/gas to make electricity. <p>Our dollars spent to the arabs alone, doesn’t come back to us in the form mutual benefit. <p>Instead it produces instability in the arab world leading to discontent and hijackers that want your ass, and yes, we make the world more unsafe by selling tyrants WMDs for oil like we have in the past.<p> But, we justify it all by calling our tyrants acceptable to America because Oil is involved, like we did with Saddam in the 80s. <p> So aside from the political loss, the security loss, and the dollars pissed away to the east, solar cuts down “ANY” amount of this by what ever we are willing to do today to get it in place. <p>If we must piss away money, lets do it at home?

[Sterling Martin]

I agree with Chris that if "pissing money away" needs to be done, we need to do it at home. A good place to start would be in alternative energy. I don't believe that America has enough of land area to fill with solar panels to even dent the oil consumption, unfortunaly.

[ian]

As a Canadian I have a vested interest in America to continue using oil and gas. If Americans did go into solar the way Chris suggests, your national debt would increase, your cost of energy would 10X what it is now(that's the wholesale cost per kWH), your economy would flounder, and America would quickly become a third word country.<p>Then Americans would be trying to get into Canada by the thousands for a decent standard of living.
We don't have the resources to handle that kind of immigration or border protection so we'd get dragged down too. <p>Things definitely need to be done to reduce our dependency on oil, but it's not solar panels.

[jwax]

The canuck is delirious.

[Chris Smith]

I second that motion.

[ian]

I'm tired of doing the math for you jokers.<p>Calculate how much more in debt the US would be if enough solar panels were bought to replace your oil imports. It wouldn't be hard.<p>Then calculate how much higher the yearly deficit would be if you had to maintain the multi-trillion dollar systems. That's not hard either.<p>Once you do that, then call me delerious, but don't call me Shirley.

[Chris Smith]

Ian....Your good at keeping a myth alive, with a straight face. We know you believe its true and all, but,....We call that naivety, or youth talking. <p>Ill bet you pay your credit card off with minimum payments also, thinking your personal national debt will EVER be paid off?<p> It doesn’t work that way. <p>A good class in economics is in order for you, as your myths continue to suggest.