Just throwing this question out there because I know you guys will have a quick answer. Anyone know how the typical "chain pull" speed control works on low price ceiling fans? This is the typical 3-speed control that goes from high-medium-low-off with each pull of the chain.
I ask because of a strange situation I came across that may imply some other problem. Just bought a new home (older home actually) that had two ceiling fans in two rooms. I noticed that one of the fans had quirky speed problems... i.e. sometimes each pull of the chain would NOT result in a change of speed. Sometimes it would seem to work ok.
Then, I installed another new fan from Lowes and it worked fine for about a day. Now, each time I pull the speed chain, it just stays in high-speed mode. Very weird. I also noticed a couple lights in the house with dial-type wall dimmers don't dim the lights. Also weird. Seems too coincidental that I would have four defective devices but then again, they all could have failed over time. I have yet to look at each device as I am just now in the process of mapping out the breaker box to all the outlets and wall switches. Anyone have any ideas? I will get back when I look at each device and report what I find.
Thanks!!!!
ceiling fan speed controls
ceiling fan speed controls
"Who is John Galt?"
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Chris Smith
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Start with your grounds, and if you’re a mobile / modular home, extra grounds on the body are required.
See if your bonded at the panel for neutral to ground also, while some fans don’t have a controller, they wire the motor windings for the different speeds, then chose that wiring on the switch.
Some use controllers, some don’t.
Also check for reverse polarity on the main wiring and any CB that buzzes when in operation.
See if your bonded at the panel for neutral to ground also, while some fans don’t have a controller, they wire the motor windings for the different speeds, then chose that wiring on the switch.
Some use controllers, some don’t.
Also check for reverse polarity on the main wiring and any CB that buzzes when in operation.
Hmmm. I investigated the typical Fan speed chain switch and it looks like they indeed just switch in/out windings on the fan motor. I just don't get how a bad ground in this type of switch could cause the fan to run at high speed no matter what windings the chain switch switched in. But I do suspect that there is something going on perhaps starting at the breaker box. Any more suggestions on where and how to look for indications of grounding or reverse polarity. I did find a mis wired GFCI in the kitchen that had hot and neutral switched, but was not the source of the problem.
"Who is John Galt?"
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Robert Reed
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Dr When
I purchased 4 Hampton Bay ceiling fans from Lowes a couple of years ago. Althogh I have no idea on what type motor is in them since I really didn't care to investigate it at the time. But the speed control they all used was by switching in stepped capacitors that ran the range of 2 to 9 MFD. These were all in series with what appeared to be the feild winding in a fashion that looks like thet are might be varying the voltage/phase to that winding. As to your light dimmers, they are almost all phase controlling triacs and work equally well on either side of the feed (black wire or white wire), although preference would put it on the black wire. Is any of this stuff still under warranty? Sounds like an interesting problem and I would love to see your followup on it.
I purchased 4 Hampton Bay ceiling fans from Lowes a couple of years ago. Althogh I have no idea on what type motor is in them since I really didn't care to investigate it at the time. But the speed control they all used was by switching in stepped capacitors that ran the range of 2 to 9 MFD. These were all in series with what appeared to be the feild winding in a fashion that looks like thet are might be varying the voltage/phase to that winding. As to your light dimmers, they are almost all phase controlling triacs and work equally well on either side of the feed (black wire or white wire), although preference would put it on the black wire. Is any of this stuff still under warranty? Sounds like an interesting problem and I would love to see your followup on it.
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dacflyer
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perhaps it might be a voltage problem ? i came across a time when there was 220 volts connected to 110 circuit.. fried ballast , dimmer switches were shorted, and 1 celing fan became toast, not to mention the light bulbs became flash bulbs.
as far as celing fans go, they use motor caps,,but usually if a cap goes bad, the fan will not run at all or very slowly.
good luck..
as far as celing fans go, they use motor caps,,but usually if a cap goes bad, the fan will not run at all or very slowly.
good luck..
Interesting. Here is something that I did not mention with the newer ceiling fan. Oh, it's not Hampton Bay but a similar cheap one. The second night after installing it, it was running on low speed. In the middle of the night I noticed it was running on high speed. At that point, pulling the speed chain did not alter the speed. Now it's fast-fast-fast-off. If it uses caps, which it certainly may, sounds like they might now be shorted??
If I had a problem on one of the circuits, would it be logical to assume that it should be isolated to that circuit (breaker)? If I had a problem at the service panel, I could see that causing a problem throughout the various circuits. This will need to take some careful investigation... starting I guess with each device, one at a time.
If I had a problem on one of the circuits, would it be logical to assume that it should be isolated to that circuit (breaker)? If I had a problem at the service panel, I could see that causing a problem throughout the various circuits. This will need to take some careful investigation... starting I guess with each device, one at a time.
"Who is John Galt?"
I'm voting for an accumulation of seperately broken switches due to poor maintenance by the former owner plus the coincidence that you either got a defective fan switch or a wire slipped out of a nut or crimp shortly after installation. A lot of those fans use a molex wire to wire connector between the fan and lamp assembly which can become partially open.
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Chris Smith
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Shorted widings can make one speed run, also switches but usually they fall apart then short.
If you are using caps, yes they could be blown, which is back to bad wiring, reverse polarity, buzzing CBs etc.
A poor ground/ neutral will increase the return wire resistance.
The strain on it could cause caps to over heat, or a lot of other possible problems.
You can place a nice load like a 250 watt heat lamp at all the electrical points, then VOM it there, at the panel, The CBs, and everything else.
A rare thing would be your second 120 leg fed onto the neutral line because it was supposed to be bonded to ground?
That would be 240 but usually 240 pops things like a bulb in just a second.
My first guess would be poor neutrals, grounds, poor connections.
Your fan may have suffered and shorted out the winding to windings, or caps popped.
If you are using caps, yes they could be blown, which is back to bad wiring, reverse polarity, buzzing CBs etc.
A poor ground/ neutral will increase the return wire resistance.
The strain on it could cause caps to over heat, or a lot of other possible problems.
You can place a nice load like a 250 watt heat lamp at all the electrical points, then VOM it there, at the panel, The CBs, and everything else.
A rare thing would be your second 120 leg fed onto the neutral line because it was supposed to be bonded to ground?
That would be 240 but usually 240 pops things like a bulb in just a second.
My first guess would be poor neutrals, grounds, poor connections.
Your fan may have suffered and shorted out the winding to windings, or caps popped.
haklesup,
That's what I think and hope for. I will look at the connections inside the new fan and try to determine what may have vibrated loose, etc. in the first 24 hours of use. As I look at the other items I should see right away the mode of failure (the dimmers, that is). I think the former owner was a little bit careless (as evidenced by the miswired GFCI) and I will have to look everything over. It just struck me as weird at first that all these items had failed though I must admit I had no proof that the other items had failed since occupency. Things aren't always as they appear!!!
(my fiance' thought it was a ghost!!
)
That's what I think and hope for. I will look at the connections inside the new fan and try to determine what may have vibrated loose, etc. in the first 24 hours of use. As I look at the other items I should see right away the mode of failure (the dimmers, that is). I think the former owner was a little bit careless (as evidenced by the miswired GFCI) and I will have to look everything over. It just struck me as weird at first that all these items had failed though I must admit I had no proof that the other items had failed since occupency. Things aren't always as they appear!!!
(my fiance' thought it was a ghost!!
)"Who is John Galt?"
Yeah, A ghost of the former owner who evidently was not as adept at electricity as you are.
Most people have no clue and rightfully don't attempt to fix switches themselves. But when the electrician tells them it will cost $200 to fix them, they suddenly can do without that switch for awhile.
If the problem with the fan is not obvious, don't be shy about calling the customer service hotline. They'll send new parts ASAP if it seems thats the cause and they should have a clue as to the cause even if it is just a scripted fault tree type answer.
Dimmers, especially older ones were notoriuos for failing after an incandescant light bulb blows. I forget the exact mechanism but it causes a voltage spike that blows the SCR. Not sure if newer models are also susceptable but if you buy a heavy duty one with a high current rating, it is less likely to happen.
Now is a good time to change the colors of the switches and receptacles to be compatible with your new room colors (assuming you painted your new home inside).
On my new fan, I just leave it switch on fast and use a universal wireless remote control module I bought at HD for $35. A nice add on if one didn't come with the fan.
Most people have no clue and rightfully don't attempt to fix switches themselves. But when the electrician tells them it will cost $200 to fix them, they suddenly can do without that switch for awhile.
If the problem with the fan is not obvious, don't be shy about calling the customer service hotline. They'll send new parts ASAP if it seems thats the cause and they should have a clue as to the cause even if it is just a scripted fault tree type answer.
Dimmers, especially older ones were notoriuos for failing after an incandescant light bulb blows. I forget the exact mechanism but it causes a voltage spike that blows the SCR. Not sure if newer models are also susceptable but if you buy a heavy duty one with a high current rating, it is less likely to happen.
Now is a good time to change the colors of the switches and receptacles to be compatible with your new room colors (assuming you painted your new home inside).
On my new fan, I just leave it switch on fast and use a universal wireless remote control module I bought at HD for $35. A nice add on if one didn't come with the fan.
Open your main electrical breaker panel. Check that all neutral wires are tightly screwed down, especially the main neutral power cable as it comes into the panel.
We had a similar problem at a TV station where a sat dish actuator failed to operate. Measured voltage to the actuator motor was way high but the motor wouldn't budge. It turned out that measured voltage was generated by the reactive motor windings. The main neutral wire coming into a downstairs sub panel had never been snugged tight. 120V circuits and lights in the building on different phases were operating on 240V in series(!)
We had a similar problem at a TV station where a sat dish actuator failed to operate. Measured voltage to the actuator motor was way high but the motor wouldn't budge. It turned out that measured voltage was generated by the reactive motor windings. The main neutral wire coming into a downstairs sub panel had never been snugged tight. 120V circuits and lights in the building on different phases were operating on 240V in series(!)
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ecerfoglio
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Some light bulbs, when instaled in some particular orientation (usually pointing upwards), often make a brief short circuitDimmers, especially older ones were notoriuos for failing after an incandescant light bulb blows. I forget the exact mechanism but it causes a voltage spike that blows the SCR. Not sure if newer models are also susceptable but if you buy a heavy duty one with a high current rating, it is less likely to happen.
when the filament breaks up and collapses over the exposed terminals inside the bulb.Of course, this short circuit exists for only a short time
(pun intended), but is enought to blow the dimmer. I even knew some cases where it tripped a circuit breaker: the breaker trips for no aparent cause, and when reset there is no short circuit at all but the bulb has no fillament
E. Cerfoglio
Buenos Aires
Argentina
Buenos Aires
Argentina
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Dean Huster
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I don't ever recall reading if the "OFF" position of the pull chain worked in the sequence of HI-MED-LO-OFF. If it never turns off, blame the pull switch for sure. Of all ceiling fan parts, it's the pull switches that are always failing for me. Those things are so poorly made that it's a wonder that they work at all.
I agree with haklesup -- just leave it on HIGH with a wireless remote installed. It's a heck of a lot more convenient and less wear-and-tear on the switches. And most of those remotes give you dimmer control of the light as well. And if the fan is installed in you bedroom, the remote has the obvious advantage of not having to climb out of bed to do anything with the air or light.
Dean
I agree with haklesup -- just leave it on HIGH with a wireless remote installed. It's a heck of a lot more convenient and less wear-and-tear on the switches. And most of those remotes give you dimmer control of the light as well. And if the fan is installed in you bedroom, the remote has the obvious advantage of not having to climb out of bed to do anything with the air or light.
Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).
R.I.P.
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).
R.I.P.
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