Prius VS Hummer

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Sambuchi
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Prius VS Hummer

Post by Sambuchi » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:08 am

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage! :shock:


I am not standing behind this column fully..

just thought it was interesting read.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editoria ... NewsID=188

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:50 pm

Apples and Oranges?

Before the off roading, before the CO emissions?

This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

This plant, not the car is the problem.

There is no reason that all materials cant be recycled at a profit to the nation, but some in congress have short insight, and all the speeches in the world go in one ear and out the other for their short term profits.

Morons will be morons at your cost. [Pugs]

One day they will learn that combining every one and every thing into the equation is far more profitable than raping just a few, squeezing blood out of a turnip, trying to get ahead,.... but let hope they just fade away and die while the rest prosper. You cant educate the stupid, that is obvious.

There is far more money and industry doing things right, unless you think the "Right" is correct, and that’s working out real well?

Newz2000
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Post by Newz2000 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:13 pm

Bologna. :grin:

Do the math...
the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were... The new tests... has dropped the Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg.
...
The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles...
First, it seems a bit odd that they say a hummer will last 300,000 miles, but skipping that, lets do the math.

If it costs 100,000 miles x $3.25 /mile = $325,000 then why do they sell them for < $30,000? And it can't be the gas that drives up the cost, because if it gets 45mpg, 100,000/45 x $3.25/gal = $7,222 spent on gas over the life of 100,000 miles. $23,000 (base price for prius) + $7,222 = $30,222 not counting tax and floor mats.

This is someone who's just trying to be sensational and make the news. Hand waiving.

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haklesup
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Post by haklesup » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:35 am

Staff writer at a university newspaper. That explains the disagree with the establishment attitude. That might get him a job at the SF Chronicle but not the NY Times.

Anyway, its clear he cherry picked his facts and provided a poorly balanced view. 300k miles is optimistic even for a Hummer (maybe a military version actually used by the army but not in Iraq).

Where does one look up expected vehicle lifetimes?
Here is a method but not a chart http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/grnhsgas/vmt.pdf

I also sense a bit of anti-globalist in this guy. For example he sees only wasted energy in the manufacture of batteries, not jobs, trade and improved standards of living for those getting paid (I'd guess because it's not him).

I'm actually surprised he didn't get down on the Cadmium as well.

I see his point though, seems he dosen't want people to just assume Hybrids are a solution to everything just based on the facts at the surface.

http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/assessmen ... ssment.pdf
Interesting but only somewhat on topic assessment of battery powered vehicles.

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GoingFastTurningLeft
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Post by GoingFastTurningLeft » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:01 pm

"a standard 75 horsepower 1.5L engine" :shock:

I didn't think they made cars with 75 HP engines since the 70's, aside from something like a Geo Metro. That is still an abismal power/displacement ratio.

A 90's honda civic with a 1.6 still has something like 120 HP.

And what about the tons of Nickel that the US government uses for Nickels? We've got environmental disasters in our pockets!

Dimbulb
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Post by Dimbulb » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:17 pm

For 2007 the gas engine is 76 HP plus the two electric motors 28 HP equals 106 HP.

my own testing showed this: 45 mpg hywy 53 city

The savings are relative to what you drove before.

The sticker price of 22,950 / zero package.

The average driver in the bay area drives more than years before.

let's say you drive 18,000 miles and the price per gallon is $3.35
18000/48mpg = 375
375*3.35 = $1,256 per year
1,256 * 6years = $7,536

compare to:

18000/18mpg = 1000
1000*3.35 = $3,350
3,350 * 6 years = $20,100

The point is there is a reward for down sizing

saving you $12,560 over the 18 mpg vehicle for 6 years
this savings can be seen as 1/2 the purchase price.

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jwax
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Post by jwax » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:51 am

To be fair, let's add in the cost of a battery pack replacement, unless there's a 6-year free one as part of the warranty. Does the manufacturer claim a lifetime of the battery? What is the replacement cost?

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haklesup
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Post by haklesup » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am

The hybrid manufacturers sure keep battery life data under their hat. It is very hard to find anything and you won't find a word about it in car broschures.

Ford does have an 8 year/100k mile warranty that includes the battery and all hybrid components. I didn't look up the Honda.

Unfortunately, Plug in conversion kits and and other mods will void the warranty.

Its hard to predict what the cost of a battery will be in 7-10 years. I expect there will be all sorts of aftermarket choices by then.

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:30 am

Q:Its hard to predict what the cost of a battery will be in 7-10 years.

A: A reduction in CO and other Green house gasses.

1400 tons per 100,000 miles
2800 tons per 200,000 miles
4200 tons per 300,000 miles

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jollyrgr
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Post by jollyrgr » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:36 pm

I drive a Suburban. It will take a lot to get me not to drive something this big. I stopped last week at a dealership to inquire about used Suburbans, the GMC counterpart a Yukon XL, and possibly a Hummer or H2. The dealer cannot keep these on the lot; even with high gas prices! I tried a couple more dealers and the same story! Going to Autotrader revealed a large number of them. But those with 70K miles or less were usually gone. There were some '03 and '04 models with over 100K on them available.

Despite the nasty cost of gas there are many people that will not give up their big rides. I'm one of them.
No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. But billions of electrons, photons, and electromagnetic waves were terribly inconvenienced!

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:12 pm

Bottom line is Americans don’t have a clue, SUV sales are up by the thousands of percents, as if to say, no problem?

Burn the gas, it cant hurt?

1400 tons per 100,000 miles so what? [times millions]

Births are up while complaining "they" are invading us [what a joke] , ...as if they, don’t have sex too, and children. [and you let them/ republicanism]DUHHH

Meanwhile the earth’s resources are limited, always has been, and the energy to please every one is not just diminishing, its killing the world.

We consume and waste 95% of the worlds energy, and for what facade?

BUT SO WHAT, there is NO ONE HOME.

We breed sheep, and Washington.

Thank god the future was a cinch for me when I was 5, I might have followed the rest of the fools?

And if you don’t agree, just learn the language of sheep!

Bahhahahahah DC is pushing it real hard, just for you.

Dean Huster
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Post by Dean Huster » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:34 am

let's say you drive 18,000 miles and the price per gallon is $3.35
18000/48mpg = 375
375*3.35 = $1,256 per year
1,256 * 6years = $7,536

compare to:

18000/18mpg = 1000
1000*3.35 = $3,350
3,350 * 6 years = $20,100
Isn't (48/18) * $7,536 = $20,096 a lot easier on calculator key wear? :>)

Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

R.I.P.

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