Irritant venting

[dyarker]

The last two posts, on two different forums, I viewed contained the same error. Not serious but slows down reading. (Not just by those who's English is a second language either!)<p>your = you possessive
you're = you are contraction<p>Another is:
there = position, existance
they're = they are contraction
their = they possessive<p>Now I feel better. If you think of any more sound alikes frequently misused, please add them here.<p>[ May 15, 2005: Message edited by: Dale Y ]</p>

[josmith]

So you think your smart.

[ian]

My take on this is to always add the contraction just in case it's needed.

[dyarker]

Nope. What I said. Comprehending(sp?) is easier when the correct words are used. It is a minor thing that I'd come across once too often, so I thought I'd mention it.<p>And you used "your" instead of "you're" on purpose, right??

[terri]

How about the variants of its?<p>The only way to vent this irritation is to use a proffreeder's fan and blow it off.

[Chris Smith]

We call a person that corrects other peoples English, “The annoying English teacher” or “Spalling Kween”. <p>Take your pick. <p>The English teacher is hated by all, the Spalling Kween gets a zircon tiara, value 2 bucks. <p>So basically its not worth it either way and besides no one but an English teacher cares about the proper Kings English, or even the slang uncouth American version as long as the message is understood. <p>Content not form, is true communication, some thing the teacher never could get. <p>But they do have a colorful description for that kind of retentive behavior.

[jwax]

I agree Chris- It's like what they say about math-There's 3 kinds of people in the world- those that understand math, and those that don't.

[ian]

I hv to say I disgre tht splng isnt imprtnt.
Evn if u gt yr . acrss I beleev its betr to normlize splng so tht yr msg can be red by all groups, nt jst the ones yr tlking to. Othrwize, cmnicatn brakes down untl u cnt udrstnd dfrent grps t'all.
ian

[Chris Smith]

Long ago it was proven that spelling doesn’t matter, as the eye and brain, [if they are working] can descramble many things that don’t look right.

[Donald S. Lambert]

Back in 1947-1948 I attended a Junior College and it was manditory you take a course in English your first year of studies. And one of the textbooks was "Writer's Guide and Index to English". That was your Bible to the course. Every week you had to write a paper of such length and it had to be perfect - spelling, punctuation and subject matter. It covered different styles of writing. And all papers had to be double spaced to allow room for the teacher to remark on the errors made. And she would refer to page and sometimes paragraph of the Writer's Guide.<p>And you wrote on a topic of your choosing and that was then the topic for that week. You wrote and rewrote till there was no error. If an error it was maked incomplete and handed back with comments and you rewrote it. At the time I had a typewriter and I was a two or three finger typist so a rewrite was torture if it had to be done more than once on a week's paper.<p>I can't remember the subject but I wrote and of couirse I missed on spelling and sentence construction but she also stated that what I was writing about was gibberish. So I corrected the spelling and other errors and then I reworded the topic completely and made sure that I used the correct words. And it usually took me two days to rewrite the paper and then it would come back the next day but after a few redoes it was about the subject that she was complaining about. I used simple words and I used big words and still a rewrite. And I couldn't start a new topic since I had to complete this one or take a failing grade.<p>On about the 7th or 8th resubmission it didn't come back the next day so I had a reprieve for a few days. That thing was getting to be a big think sheaf of paper since all the prior attempts were included in the paper to be handed in. Then about a week after I had last submitted the paper it came back with a grade of A++ but she hadn't put the grade on the paper. Her husband (of a few months) had gotten tired of her complaints about my stubbornness and read the paper(s). And I had wrote about things she didn't have the least idea of what was right or wrong but he did. I guess they must have had some arguements about the topic but I got a grade in the course.<p>It isn't the spelling or the sentence structure or political ideas that are important here but the knowledge as it pertains to the original question asked by someone.<p>Just like I am interested in solar cells and using them to recharge nicad batteries. But that is a topic all by itself.<p>Greybie

[Chris Smith]

You hit the nail on the head...<p>Content not form, is true communication, some thing the teacher never could get.

[dr_when]

Hmmm. "close enough". A real liberal mindset. That's why kids are coming out of public schools knowing nothing. Spelling doesn't matter. Grammar doesn't matter. Math teachers telling kids that close enough is ok. We don't want anyone's kids to feel bad. <p>How much mispelling is OK? Nothing wrong with "your" and "You're" interchanged? How about "two", "to", and "too"? <p>As long as peeple unnerstand your'e 'cipherin, its oK tw0! <p>At what point is mispelling and bad grammer acceptable? To what degree? 10%? 20%? Don't people take pride in doing something well? Doesn't posting a message with a little care qualify?<p>[ May 16, 2005: Message edited by: dr_when ]</p>

[Adam Y.]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> At what point Chris is mispelling and bad grammer unacceptable? To what degree? 10%? 20%?
<hr></blockquote>
That is a good question but unfortunately no one here has used proper grammar. I would say about ten percent of your post dr_when is incorrect and yet I still understand the point perfectly.

[Engineer1138]

Sure it's true that spelling isn't that important as long as the point get across, but bad spelling can make that point fall on deaf ears (closed eyes??).<p>Someone can be the smartest person around, but if their text is full of spelling and grammar errors, it's hard for me to take them seriously. Writing just *isn't* that difficult to get right.<p>I do make allowances online since I realize that for many people English is not their native language. But presentation still matters if you want an audience. If someone can't take the time to present their ideas properly, why should I take the time to read them?
The occasional typo (e.g., 'teh' instead of 'the'), or a minor grammar error usually doesn't bother me; rather it's repeated instances of the same mistake, or the feeling that the writer just can't be bothered to get things more or less right that irritates me.<p>p.s.,
add 'toung' vs. 'tongue' to the list: that's my pet peeve

[dyarker]

When I put up the first post, I thought a couple people would say "oops" to themselves, and maybe make the mistake less often in the future. But I seem to have struck a raw nerve.<p>It does not matter if it is "proven" that the eye and brain can descramble even ian's example. Doing so takes more effort, slows understanding, and leaves more room for misinterpretation.<p>Poor English and math education is a small piece of why technology jobs move from America to overseas. One example; why would a manufacturer hire an American to write an equipment user's manual (English version) when a guy Delhi will do it at least as well, a lot cheaper and wasn't allowed to pick up sloppy shortcuts in school. And who is the spokesperson for sloppy? The same person who advocates spending a Dollar on solar cells to reduce oil imports by ten cents. A bit hypocritical heh?<p>Greybie, your Junior College did you more of a favor than you realize. The quality of the writing in your post disproves the contention that it was a waste of effort. It can be read and understood in one pass. Thank you for proving my point, and dr_when's, while trying to defend the other side of the debate.<p>"It isn't the spelling or the sentence structure or political ideas that are important here but the knowledge as it pertains to the original question asked by someone." True. But, getting the ideas understood, especially in technology, requires some accuracy. "Rule bending" should be left to poets. And, polititians take care of "truth bending". <p>--------------------------
Do you want to help your kids compete in the job market? Tell your school district you want them to be able read and write well. Better yet, don't say anything to your school district. Then my son will be able to get any job he wants with ease.
----------------------------<p>This thread far exceeded my original intent. I guess it will run on for three or four more pages. I thank the "sloppy is okay" people for the opportunity to write this essay, I was getting out of practice too.<p>See you all later (hopefully discussing electronics which is more fun),