Blue Transfer Paper, 4th try, Success!

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MrAl
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Blue Transfer Paper, 4th try, Success!

Post by MrAl » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:24 pm

Hi again,


My fourth try getting the blue circuit pattern transfer paper to work
led to some success. There is a catch however, and that is that
i did not use my very own laser printer, but someone else was nice
enough to make a printout on their laser printer and send the blue
paper printout to me to try. It worked pretty well, with about 98
percent of the toner density transferring. Only three pads and one
line need a little touching up, but that is so easy to do compared with
trying to draw the whole pattern on the entire board.

This result leads me to believe that what is found on the web is true:
that the Brother line of laser printers dont work well with the blue
transfer paper (and probably not other paper either). For some
reason that darn ink just does not want to come off of the paper
and onto the board. I did everything as before too, and used
clean steel wool again to clean the board (that puts a mild cross
hatch pattern on the board for what it's worth, as well as cleans it
very good).

Any suggestions now on what to do about the Brother printer
(besides dump in the garbage)?
It looks like i can get some usable results with another brand
of laser printer.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

Robert Reed
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Post by Robert Reed » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:02 pm

MrAl
Glad to hear you are making progess, but one sentence caught my attention:

" I did everything as before too, and used
clean steel wool again to clean the board (that puts a mild crosshatch pattern on the board for what it's worth, as well as cleans it very good). "

Every common store brand of steel wool I have ever used has an oil impregnation in it so as to preserve it (rust). Certain manufacturers highlight the fact that there special products are devoid of any preservatives. With common over the counter steel wool, it still will require a swipe of acetone. Don't know if others have run into this, but its been my experience.

Engineer1138
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Post by Engineer1138 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:02 pm

Congratulations!

Lucky for you that you don't follow my motto: if at first you don't succeed, try something easier ;-)

Before you dump the Brother, send it to me. I like my HL5140 laser and the fax/copier/injket upstairs and would happily get another.

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MrAl
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Post by MrAl » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:10 pm

Hi again,


Robert:
That's interesting, but after all it did work very well on the one board
that used the 'other' laser printer toner yet the same technique
did not work with the Brother laser toner. I even tried using alcohol
one time and that didnt help either.

Engineer:
Well i might be willing to sell this thing but not sure how much it
would cost to ship to somewhere else. I'd have to check the
weight i guess. It's brand new except for the few patterns i've
printed so far. Nice and compact too, with a footprint of about
16 inches by 14 inches and only 7 inches high, even with a front
loader and rear 'line of sight' exiter (for things you dont want to
bend when being printed). The one drawback is i dont think it
will handle really small envelopes, just the standard business
size. For everything else this printer is great, just not for the
blue transfer paper, or so it seems so far.
I wouldnt have believed it but then other people seem to have
reported this problem too, although this is a bit of hearsay.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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MrAl
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Post by MrAl » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:48 pm

Hello again,


Ok, 5th try now and pretty much success. I have to say that once
you get this working it works pretty darn good. It's not perfect,
but this 5th time yielded results that only need about 60 seconds
of touching up, if that, as there are only a few 'holes' or 'pits'
in the toner that need to be filled in. All the lines made it this time
too, which is encouraging.

What it took was a totally different laser printer, and of course that
had a different toner type in it. The Brother laser printer did not
work at all, with almost no transfer at all, and many times absolutely
nothing transferred, even after high heat. The new printer is a
Samsung, and it was recommended by someone who uses the blue
paper regularly.

Dont get me wrong here though, the Brother printer is really nice
when it comes to drawing graphics and even some text. It has
multiple settings to change how the graphics get printed too.
One of the nicest things about it is the toner cartridge is only
40 dollars for a new one. The new Samsung will cost be $70 when
it comes time unless i find a sale or something, or someone here
knows of a good online outlet or something. Thus, the Brother
printer (and it's 1200x1200 resolution for about 100 bucks) is
great for 'normal' printing, just not ANY GOOD AT ALL for using
the blue transfer paper, and i doubt very much it will work for
any kind of paper-to-board transfer technique. Pass the word.
I should have payed more attention to the web pages i read about
Brother printers and transfer paper, but then you cant believe
everything you read on the web without question. I tried it, it
didnt work. The Samsung worked GREAT the first time i tried it.

Pass the word to anyone else looking to use this or any other transfer
method so they dont waste 100 bucks too.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

JOHN GAGARIAN
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Blue transfer paper procedures

Post by JOHN GAGARIAN » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:14 pm

I used blue transfer paper for several years. The SECRET is PRE-ETCHING with ammonium persulfate at 130/150 degrees the boards for a short time until the copper
shows a dull brown color. I obtained excellent results with traces down to 5 mils in a consitant manner. I also use
with excellent results a laminating machine
to transfer the pattern.
John G

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MrAl
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Post by MrAl » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:21 am

Hi John,


Well, i got bad results even after roughing up the surface until
i got the new printer, then everything worked fine the first try!
In fact, that's why im writing this now. I just got done etching
the board and it came out pretty nice, even with the fine print
showing (very thin lines). It's hard to believe that the toner
can be that different among printers, but then take a look at
what Wikopedia has to say about different toners and you'll
see what i mean.
Someone else i know uses a laminating machine and they
made a board for me and it came out really nice. From what
results i got from the iron however i have to say that the iron
works pretty well too, at the right temperature. It may be hard
to find the right temperature, having to try several times, but
somehow i got it right on the first try so maybe it's not that difficult
(with the new printer that is).

I would definitely have to recommend the blue paper to anyone
else wanting to make prototype boards that are just too complex
to wire up point to point on a perf board, but somehow they would
have to figure out what printer to use. We should come up with
a way to figure out what printers would work and what printers
would not work. Maybe someone knows of a list on the web
somewhere?
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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MrAl
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Post by MrAl » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:02 am

Hi again,


I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who gave me ideas
and suggestions from this site. I think more than 5 people gave
me tips on how to use this stuff properly and finally i got some good
results. Someone else i talked to a lot on this site even sent me some
blue paper to try out and that's what i have been using so far so i
didnt even have to purchase any yet to test this stuff out. When it
comes time to however i dont think i will mind too much because of
the good results i am getting now. It's still not perfect (about 98 percent
density gets transferred) and im not sure why some tiny parts of
the drawing doesnt make it to the board yet, but even so this only
requires a little touch up here and there and it's ready for etching.

Another board i did yesterday turned out fairly decent too, with only
a few tiny places not transferring. It took about 5 minutes to touch
up because i wanted to make sure i got all the traces.

Thanks again.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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