Need some advice

[stieljtes]

Hello:

I am new to the hobby, but very interested in learning about robots, sensors, industrial control - anything / everything automatically controlled.

A friend of mine suggested completing a course that he has by Heathkit on programming and interfacing the intel 8085 microprocessor. However,
I was wondering if that technology is too old, and whether I would be better off going with a parallax what's a microcontroller, and a BOEBOT kit to get a foothold on automation and microcontrollers. It seems like the Heathkit 8085 course really gets into the nuts and bolts of the microprocessor, and I am wondering if that level of knowledge is necessary or even worth the trouble? The parallax kits really get you going fast on some very interesting projects, and it seems like there are numerous rescources available on programming and DIY projects using the basic stamps.

I would appreciate any suggestions or comments on what a proper education should include, given my interests. Thank you.

[haklesup]

WHile you probably won't be using an 8085 in many projects, it would give you a firm foundation in processor archetecture and machine language. Some of that is still relevant and if you want to design at a lower level, this is a good start. WHat does the heath kit provide to interface to the processor to program it? An Emulator or is a serial UART part of the project.

The paralax kit is more like what you will find today. Development kit packaged with a high level language, an evaluation board with built in PC interface, some sample projects and current support (there may not be many people who can still answer questions about the heathkit 8085 if you had problems). If you search on PIC or microprocerssor development kit you will find many other starting points from multiple vendors. Everything from a simple 8 bit processor to a controller with built in A/D, D/A memory etc. is available.

Either decide on a project first then find the parts you need to make or pick a development kit you like the features and price of and then research online for any projects or contest designs or reference designs that use it. From there you will have a good idea what project you might want to tackle and how much to spend on it.

[Dean Huster]

I agree. The age of the technology often has little bearing upon the learning process during your electronics "Wonder Bread Years". No one would advise you to learn processor basics using an 8088, but the 8085 is a good, solid processor. You're learning machine language (microcode) programming more than the processor itself. Besides, the 8085 has most of the nuts and bolts of any processor and is far simpler than the rather ancient 8080.

I get a little perturbed when folks poo-poo TTL logic. TTL (the 74xx, 74LSxx series, et. al.) has been around since the early 1970s and has proven itself to be an extremely versatile and forgiving logic family, perfect for students and learning. It also has the largest variety of logic functions of any family and is easily supplemented by 74Cxx or 4000-series CMOS for some really cool things, like analog multiplexers and Johnson counters.

There have been some who shun the teaching of simple electronics such as basic Ohm's Law, series and parallel circuits, solid state devices, etc., saying that ICs have replaced all that. Not so! More often than not, ICs are supported and have their capabilities extended by those old descrete components.

Heathkit course provide some of the best learning paths anywhere. You should be able to find most of them on ebay. They have a "design" series (the books have gray covers) that I think have better course material than the "regular" courses. They're available in the passive component, transistor, digital and analog IC areas.

Dean

[haklesup]

There have been some who shun the teaching of simple electronics such as basic Ohm's Law, series and parallel circuits, solid state devices, etc., saying that ICs have replaced all that.

There are educators who really think that way? Do they really think Analog is irrelevant? Ohm should have written a few more laws about that. Or do you mean students who are trying to rationalize not learning the more difficut topics.

[Dean Huster]

Most definitely. Oh, there may be some cursory explanation of some of that, but they want to get to the blinky/noisy projects as soon as possible. The other stuff is "too boring" for the students. Electronics programs have been closing all over the U.S. at the seconday level for the past 20 years, replaced mostly by computer repair and networking courses with no electronics involved at all. Even 20 and 30 years ago, most of the other vocational classes (auto mechanics, auto body, carpentry, welding, etc.) always filled first and had waiting lists before electronics even got half of their student load. As the years went on and enrollment began to fall, prerequisites for math and science were dropped and grades began to fall in electronics. Pretty soon, instructors had to "dumb down" their courses to the point that the average student's electronics knowledge was somewhat of an embarrassment.

Mine was one of those courses that was replaced by computer repair and the whole process of my job disappearing is still a very sensitive spot in my life. At the last VICA electronics district contest that our school hosted, the average second-year electronics student was clueless as to what a 555 timer or op amp was, couldn't find "pin 1" on a DIP, couldn't use an oscillscope and could barely use a DMM and the soldering skills were non-existant. What a shame!!

I'm still teaching industrial electricity courses at the community college, but that's not the same.

Dean