air conditioner pre cooler
Hi there,
Keeping the motor cooler reduces resistance and so makes the
motor run more efficient, but just how much difference can it make?
What i suspect would happen, assuming you have the evaporation
process perfected, is that the AC unit will still run 24/7, the only
difference being the temperature inside the room will be cooler.
If you happen to have a day when the temperature is lower perhaps
the AC will turn off for a time and thus reduce the electric bill and
wear and tear on the AC unit.
I think there is some validity to the idea, because i have used a fan
to cool a water soaked sponge in the past, and it really does make
the sponge feel cold on a warm summer day. For example, if
you want to keep a can of soda cool wrap a sponge around it
soaked in water and have a fan blowing directly on it.
The problem with the AC is working out the details, which would included
how to remove the heat and keep the moisture out. A heat exchanger of
some sort comes to mind. With the soda can, the heat exchanger is
simply the metal wall of the can, which readily passes heat while
keeping preventing the absorption of moisture...simple, yet effective.
Perhaps wet the coils of the AC unit as someone suggested, and have
a fan blowing on it to remove the moisture. A slight misting every
now and then will keep the coils moist.
I wouldnt expect freezing temperatures from any of this, but with AC
even a decrease of as little as 5 degrees F could mean the difference
between a comfortable day and an uncomfortable one.
Oh yeah, as far as the water vs water bill is concerned, on a hot hot
summer day i wouldnt care
Keeping the motor cooler reduces resistance and so makes the
motor run more efficient, but just how much difference can it make?
What i suspect would happen, assuming you have the evaporation
process perfected, is that the AC unit will still run 24/7, the only
difference being the temperature inside the room will be cooler.
If you happen to have a day when the temperature is lower perhaps
the AC will turn off for a time and thus reduce the electric bill and
wear and tear on the AC unit.
I think there is some validity to the idea, because i have used a fan
to cool a water soaked sponge in the past, and it really does make
the sponge feel cold on a warm summer day. For example, if
you want to keep a can of soda cool wrap a sponge around it
soaked in water and have a fan blowing directly on it.
The problem with the AC is working out the details, which would included
how to remove the heat and keep the moisture out. A heat exchanger of
some sort comes to mind. With the soda can, the heat exchanger is
simply the metal wall of the can, which readily passes heat while
keeping preventing the absorption of moisture...simple, yet effective.
Perhaps wet the coils of the AC unit as someone suggested, and have
a fan blowing on it to remove the moisture. A slight misting every
now and then will keep the coils moist.
I wouldnt expect freezing temperatures from any of this, but with AC
even a decrease of as little as 5 degrees F could mean the difference
between a comfortable day and an uncomfortable one.
Oh yeah, as far as the water vs water bill is concerned, on a hot hot
summer day i wouldnt care
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.
-
Chris Smith
- Posts: 4325
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Bieber Ca.
Al
The two types of air cooling could never mix, wet evaporative and dry cold air.
One is a sealed recycled cold dry air system, the other is a expansive expelled type wet air system.
To mix the two would only defeat both of the systems.
One recycles the air, the other must expel the air.
The water cooler could only effect the out side evaporators temperature.
The problem here aside from rust and a possible water mess is the unit wont get any cooler if its doing what it was designed to do.
They don’t just go down or up with the out side temperature unless they are over worked, so the internal temperature will stay at the regulated pre set temp and the only effect will be the unit is getting a boost in efficiency, not necessarily performance temperature, because it has a regulator to stop the unit from going below it set point temperature.
IF it cant keep up with the out side temperature, then the cooled evaporator will help lower the condensers’ temperature and make improvements to allow the unit to reach its peak efficiency and lowest temperature. This however is still preset so you cant go below this number.
Its like any VR on a car, it cant go higher in voltage or performance because it is preset and regulated not to.
However, if you draw its maximum amount of power and lessen it air flow, it will become stinking hot, so if you freeze [or use cold air] the unit because it is over worked and very hot, then you help its efficiency because it is over worked. You allow the temperature to be correct, thus the unit does what it was intended to do, because its not over heated.
However, you don’t get more than the circumstances provide, you just allow them to work properly in a bad environment, hopefully at less than the maximum cost.
However, the offset in electricity may or may not be any benefit, plus the water bill, the mess, or what ever may also off set any possible gains.
This is why you need to start by checking to see if its doing its best already, and if it is, there wont be any change in inside temperature, just a reduction on the working system load.
[Based on the tonnage and temperature flow in degrees]
Distilled water is fine unless you don’t recycle it, as the evaporation rate will be quite high. Even if you recycle it will add in some dissolved minerals out from the air and cooler metal components.
In temperatures of 115 degrees, several gallons a day will evaporate normally, in a evaporative cooler situation its even higher.
The two types of air cooling could never mix, wet evaporative and dry cold air.
One is a sealed recycled cold dry air system, the other is a expansive expelled type wet air system.
To mix the two would only defeat both of the systems.
One recycles the air, the other must expel the air.
The water cooler could only effect the out side evaporators temperature.
The problem here aside from rust and a possible water mess is the unit wont get any cooler if its doing what it was designed to do.
They don’t just go down or up with the out side temperature unless they are over worked, so the internal temperature will stay at the regulated pre set temp and the only effect will be the unit is getting a boost in efficiency, not necessarily performance temperature, because it has a regulator to stop the unit from going below it set point temperature.
IF it cant keep up with the out side temperature, then the cooled evaporator will help lower the condensers’ temperature and make improvements to allow the unit to reach its peak efficiency and lowest temperature. This however is still preset so you cant go below this number.
Its like any VR on a car, it cant go higher in voltage or performance because it is preset and regulated not to.
However, if you draw its maximum amount of power and lessen it air flow, it will become stinking hot, so if you freeze [or use cold air] the unit because it is over worked and very hot, then you help its efficiency because it is over worked. You allow the temperature to be correct, thus the unit does what it was intended to do, because its not over heated.
However, you don’t get more than the circumstances provide, you just allow them to work properly in a bad environment, hopefully at less than the maximum cost.
However, the offset in electricity may or may not be any benefit, plus the water bill, the mess, or what ever may also off set any possible gains.
This is why you need to start by checking to see if its doing its best already, and if it is, there wont be any change in inside temperature, just a reduction on the working system load.
[Based on the tonnage and temperature flow in degrees]
Distilled water is fine unless you don’t recycle it, as the evaporation rate will be quite high. Even if you recycle it will add in some dissolved minerals out from the air and cooler metal components.
In temperatures of 115 degrees, several gallons a day will evaporate normally, in a evaporative cooler situation its even higher.
MrAl Said:
What does happen is the Delta T difference between the hot coil fluid temp and the air which that heat is being dumped into is increased (by lowering the air or coil surface temp). In such a scenario, the compressor would not have to work as hard to maintain the temp in the cold coil (the load) thus reducing the current it needs to run.
DacFlyer Said:
As for DI water. A cartridge filter can do the job and given the volume of water needed, would last at least a year between changing. Frankly I think its just cheaper to swap the nozzles once a month. I believe a person inclined to make such a modification would also be inclined to perform whatever preventative maintenance it added to the routine. A failure of the sprayer will not cause a failure of the AC unit, only a return to factory efficiency.
Actually the temp in the room is still controlled by the demand thermostat and will run acording the setpoint, insulation and outside temp just like it always has. Cooling the hot coil should not change the way the cold coil operates inside the house.What i suspect would happen, assuming you have the evaporation
process perfected, is that the AC unit will still run 24/7, the only
difference being the temperature inside the room will be cooler.
What does happen is the Delta T difference between the hot coil fluid temp and the air which that heat is being dumped into is increased (by lowering the air or coil surface temp). In such a scenario, the compressor would not have to work as hard to maintain the temp in the cold coil (the load) thus reducing the current it needs to run.
DacFlyer Said:
Given the low humidity in LV, you wouldn't even need to spray the coils directly, a mist into the air in front of the intake would remove just as much heat from the air via evaporation as if that water evaporated on the surface of the fins. One can tweak the spray volume to suit the air flow and humidity for the majority of the cooling season so that little or no water directly contacts the evaporator coils.have a large window unit,,and i use fogger nozzels to keep it cooler running,,i actually use about 3-5 amps less power when the unit is cooled
As for DI water. A cartridge filter can do the job and given the volume of water needed, would last at least a year between changing. Frankly I think its just cheaper to swap the nozzles once a month. I believe a person inclined to make such a modification would also be inclined to perform whatever preventative maintenance it added to the routine. A failure of the sprayer will not cause a failure of the AC unit, only a return to factory efficiency.
THAT is a stroke of genius!jollyrgr wrote: The "neat" part about his idea was to use a condensate pump (used to catch the condensed water that normally goes down the drain inside the house) to pump the water to a "drip" bucket outside by the condensor. Basically you take the water that comes off the evaporator inside the house and use that on your swap cooler evaporation pads.
Bob
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Chris Smith
- Posts: 4325
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Bieber Ca.
Yes and if you read my whole post you would have seen that i hadhaklesup wrote: Actually the temp in the room is still controlled by the demand thermostat and will run acording the setpoint, insulation and outside temp just like it always has. Cooling the hot coil should not change the way the cold coil operates inside the house.
also mentioned that about the thermostat...ie the unit turns off
sooner and so saves energy.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.
-
Chris Smith
- Posts: 4325
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Bieber Ca.
The auto radiator is good for expelling heat from the water contained
within, not for cooling air flowing through it.
Even if you placed ice in the radiator, it would still be inefficient at making colder air on the out side.
The purpose of water on the evaporator coils is to warm this water on contact, then evaporate that warm water away taking great amounts of heat with it.
The ratio of water contacting an object VS air contacting an object is something like 17 times the difference, so even cold air is a waste of time blowing over the coils as opposed to even warm water.
To see how efficient water is, just spray hot water directly into the air, make sure the water is hot enough to burn when leaving your nozzle, [as that hot water leaves it can be well over 100 degrees], but a trip ten feet straight up and ten feet down will cool the water to seem like its freezing when it hits you.
You will lose at lest 30 to 40 degrees on the trip, and in only in a second or so worth of travel.
Try that with an air hose, see how cool it makes the body blowing air out of a nozzle over you hot body, on a even hotter day.
within, not for cooling air flowing through it.
Even if you placed ice in the radiator, it would still be inefficient at making colder air on the out side.
The purpose of water on the evaporator coils is to warm this water on contact, then evaporate that warm water away taking great amounts of heat with it.
The ratio of water contacting an object VS air contacting an object is something like 17 times the difference, so even cold air is a waste of time blowing over the coils as opposed to even warm water.
To see how efficient water is, just spray hot water directly into the air, make sure the water is hot enough to burn when leaving your nozzle, [as that hot water leaves it can be well over 100 degrees], but a trip ten feet straight up and ten feet down will cool the water to seem like its freezing when it hits you.
You will lose at lest 30 to 40 degrees on the trip, and in only in a second or so worth of travel.
Try that with an air hose, see how cool it makes the body blowing air out of a nozzle over you hot body, on a even hotter day.
A/C
A power attic fan will help you with about a half ton of cooling thats what my heating cooling guy told me when I built.
Re: A/C
And a perfect solution is to get a couple of those solar powered attic fans. They only work when the sun shines, but the attic only heats up when the sun shines! No external energy required.moe wrote:A power attic fan will help you with about a half ton of cooling thats what my heating cooling guy told me when I built.
I wonder how they compare to Whirlybird attic vents in cost and longevity.
Bob
My 10 year old GE window A/C is designed so that the water removed from the room air is struck by the condenser fan blades and thrown onto the condenser.
Another thing to remember just as a technicality is that the A/C draws less power when the temperature difference between the outside and inside air is greater. It is doing less work then. If it were a 100% efficient system, at the maximum temperature gradient attainable by the system, power draw would be zero for zero work being done. But since that is not the case, it does save to make the compressor work harder by keeping the condenser cooler. It just runs a lot less then, unless the evaporator ices up. Then you get a lot of compressor cycling which cancels some of the benefit of having a cooler condenser. Trade-offs *grrrr*!
Another thing to remember just as a technicality is that the A/C draws less power when the temperature difference between the outside and inside air is greater. It is doing less work then. If it were a 100% efficient system, at the maximum temperature gradient attainable by the system, power draw would be zero for zero work being done. But since that is not the case, it does save to make the compressor work harder by keeping the condenser cooler. It just runs a lot less then, unless the evaporator ices up. Then you get a lot of compressor cycling which cancels some of the benefit of having a cooler condenser. Trade-offs *grrrr*!
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frhrwa
- Posts: 897
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Eastern Washington (state) and N. Las Vegas (winter)
- Contact:
http://www.acbooster.com/ check out what FREUS is doing.. and at [url] http://www.acbooster.com/html/_freus_a_c.html seems they believe in this idea..
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Chris Smith
- Posts: 4325
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Bieber Ca.
They get to rake in the bucks, make fantastic claims, and a few years down the road there is no warranty, just you footing the bill?
And if your unit is working correctly, the only savings you get is a small load savings at a higher repair cost, and possibly a swamp, mosquitos, and bugs.
But then the “fly by nightâ€
And if your unit is working correctly, the only savings you get is a small load savings at a higher repair cost, and possibly a swamp, mosquitos, and bugs.
But then the “fly by nightâ€
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