FCC Regulation?

[frhrwa]

wasn't there a law somewhere in the not distant past that outlawed LOUD commercials? it was supposed to limit the DB level of commercials so that they weren't louder than the broadcast stations regular programs?... if that is correct, what happened? every time a commercial comes on my tv, it wakes me up!..

[Chris Smith]

The law only applies to them Raising the level above a certain point, not tricking you to up Your volume.

You are the actual [unknowing] culprit who allows the commercial to be loud simply because they play the movie or show real low, so that when the commercial comes on, YOUR volume is up just so you can hear the movie normally, thus their signal and commercial are NORMAL and legal, but their show is set way low until the commercial comes on, and YOUR volume is the real culprit.

<small>[ January 05, 2006, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Chris Smith ]</small>

[haklesup]

Never heard of it. As long as the technical parameters of the signal and its content are in range, the FCC probably wouldn't restrict what level audio is broadcast. Trying to go above the max level just induces distortion anyway.

I noticed that many primetime shows now have all sorts of Dolby like stereo modes. These tend to be broadcast at a lower average level than plain old stereo in order to leave room for the much larger dynamic range of the hi-fi audio.

I notice this now because my new AV reciever shows the audio mode on the display and it often switches from 5 channel surround during programs to 3 channel stereo during commercials.

Try turning off the matrix sound (or whatever they call it) on your set or reciever and see if you like that better. (i.e. set it to mono)

Some newer TVs and AV recievers have nighttime listning modes which compress the volume range to a tighter dynamic range. Were all going to have to get digital recievers someday, features like that should be common by then.

[frhrwa]

your probably right, I just thought I was going deaf because I can't hear shows as well as I used to be able to.. so... that should be illegal.. and, I know I'm not mistaken when I say, "one of these days you'll all be paying for TV, and there won't be any commercials"... I heard that for a long time, but.. here we are, paying for commercials, and getting 5 times as many!.. I just shut my satelite service off, because 180 stations for $60 and nothing but commericials, spanish channels, espn about 10 times, senate/congress stations (blech)... and all those other crap stations that lord only knows who watches them..

[Robert Reed]

Wayne
Your memory does serve you correct. Back in the days when the FCC stood for something useful, there were restrictions on minimum average modulation and maximum average modulation levels. There was also a heavy penalty assessed for each and every violation of profanity. I think you can see where I am going with this. The FCC is now securely nested in the back pockets of BIG MONEY and no longer serves the common man. As a matter of fact they auction off RF spectrum now to the highest bidder and you should see the mega bucks they get for that. Apparently the FCC now thinks they invented this phenomenon. and has a right to sell it for profit. At any rate, don't hold your breath waiting for them to serve you.

[frhrwa]

yep.. its like everything else here in good ol' America.. $$$ talk and the poor man walks.. well, with any luck, that fella they just busted for lobbying, I hope he takes down most of the congressman and senate, and I hope we enforce kicking their sorry butts out of office.. maybe the bells will ring through the rest of the "G" agencies...

<small>[ January 05, 2006, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: wayne ]</small>

[Chris Smith]

And Remember Colin Powell’s son is head honcho over at the FCC.

A bowl full of corruption if ever there was one.

His purpose in this despicable scheme of things was to silence more than the movie, and keep the commercials loud and clear.

Propaganda must be loud to make you go numb, as intended. And the sheep fell for it not once, but twice.

[Dean Huster]

In defense of the FCC, they are severely understaffed. That's why they just had to simply give up on regulation of the 11-meter CB band back in the 1970's, go to volunteer testing for the amateur radio community and not be responsive to citizen complaints about everything under the sun. I understand that pirate FM, AM and SW stations are at an all-time high. And for the most part, the general public just doesn't care anymore either. Ham radio interest is down; no one listens to the AM broadcast band (which they're threatening to digitize) unless they listen to talk radio; shortwave broadcasting has shifted from what was primarily political uses to primarily religious uses (it used to be so much fun to listen to Addis Abbaba, Melbourne and Johannesburg); satellite, cellular and Internet communications have pretty much taken over.

Besides, the FCC primarily governs terrestrial broadcasting -- most of you are complaining about the stuff being spit out by DirecTV and that ilk, the digital content of which the FCC doesn't much care with regard to sound levels. The complaints really need to be voiced to the satellite folks.

Dean

[frhrwa]

I don't think its just satelite.. my local tv stations are the same, cable networks are the same... they set the volume so low, as previously stated above, and then the damn commercials blow you out of your chair... I've gotten to where I don't enjoy tv anymore and will just shut it off.. maybe everybody should just shut them off.. of course getting every couch potato to shun TV would be like stopping people from paying high gasoline prices.. there's just too many weenies in the U.S. now...

[Mike]

Every time I hear a Nissan commerical on TV I wonder the same exact thing you do, Wayne.

[rshayes]

The FCC still frowns on overmodulation. This occurs when the peak modulation signal is sufficient to cut off the carrier on the neagtive modulation peaks.

The program material is transmitted at a level low enough that the peaks will not cause overmodulation.

Wher tape recorders became available, the advertisers began submitting recorded tapes for commercials instead of submitting scripts.

These tapes increased the apparent loudness of the recording by clipping the peaks at a lower level and then increasing the level of the signal until the clipping level corresponded to the peak level permitted. This creates some distortion, but the advertising message is still intelligable, and appears to sound two or three times louder.

As long as the commercial stays within the bandwidth and modulation limits specified by the FCC, the station will probably air the commercial as submitted.

"The one who pays the piper calls the tune."

[Robert Reed]

Steven
Not meaning to step on your toes , but the television audio is frequency modulated and will not affect carrier amplitude,but it will the exceed the IF's bandpass and thereby producing clipping in the detected audio and also produces many extra strong sidebands. However the video is transmitted in amplitude modulation, actually its vestigal sideband modulation which is aproaching single sideband transmission. BTW, thats an interesting point about taping and remodulating--I guess if theres a way to get around something, the sponsors will come up with it.

[jollyrgr]

It is not so much the modulation level as it is the COMPRESSION level. Two major factors are taking place with commercials. They "limit" and "compress" the crap out of the audio.

Limiting does exactly what the name implies and lowers the gain in the amplitude chain to keep the maximum level at a certain point. This makes sure the level does not exceed a certain point; usually 0dB. This makes the transmitter very happy as it does not "overmodulate".

Compression on the other hand does almost the same thing but follows what is called the compression curve. Loud peaks are brought down to the "average" level so that the overall signal stays at a constant level. The overall dynamic range is reduced but the average energy of the signal is higher. Think of it as an automatic gain system that reduces the amplitude of only the peaks.

The trick with commercials is where the threshold is set. The threshold determines the point at which the peaks reside and when the compressor will start reducing gain. Set the threshold high and only the highest of peaks are reduced. Now if the threshold is set to a lower point the overall signal becomes less dynamic as everything is seen as a peak. Doing this makes more "constant" energy in the audio signal (i.e. a constant audio level) and the result is a "louder" signal. This constant level signal is then brought up to the 0dB point. It is not that the gain of the commercials exceeds the modulation level; it is that the dynamic range is reduced. In other words more of the signal stays at the "higher" level.

Usually program content is only slightly compressed while the commercials are heavily compressed; hence why commercials seem louder than the program.

[Robert Reed]

Jolly Roger
Devices of this sort are known as Companders and are used extensively in land mobile and maritime radio service. This is a very desirable feature as it makes communication more reliable. In my first reply on this subject, I was referring to a former (way former) ruling on average modulating level and not to modulation limits. Regardless of how the commercials doctored it up, the "avreage" level still had to be within specs of the ruling. But apparently, that has gone by the wayside like a lot of other good things on commercial TV.

[Chris Smith]

Usually when the commercials come on you can even hear the back ground level increase which leads to the OLD trick of dropping the signal during the movie.

Old black and white movies should have the highest signal to noise ratio of the back ground silence to vioce level and they usually do if things are set normal, sounding like a record and needle with out sounds or voice, but yet they remain normal or low until the commercial comes on.

Then the silence of the back ground can still be heard very loud in the commercial only cleaner, just like cranking up the sound on a 1930s movie.

When the reverse is true and the movie volume is set at high it sounds like you need to change your 33RPM record.

Probably the only difference between a commercial and a 1930 sound level is the type of back ground noise, commercials are cleaner due to modern filtering.

But the back ground level of the commercial [the silence] can still be heard and this lets you know their volume is set at its maximum allowable level, while the movies are run in the almost silent mode or low volume [no back ground noise or low background noise] and these levels are deliberately cranked way down just for this effect.