HD Radio??????

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bigkim100
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HD Radio??????

Post by bigkim100 » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:37 pm

Idont know much about it, but supposidly there is a subscription service to HD Radio that allows you to receive radio stations "between" existing stations. Does anyone know if these stations are encoded, or possibly digital??. Are these stations based on old-fashioned SCA type transmissions? If these transmissions are supposidly "between" existing transmissions, can a old-fashioned analogue "slide rule" tuner instead of digital receivers be used to receive the transmissions?
Thanks
Kim..The man with the cute little girls name...and Frankensteins face and body.

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jollyrgr
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Post by jollyrgr » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:38 am

There is HD radio that is between stations but it is (for now at least) FREE. (This service is supposed to be free and remain free.) The stations are indeed digital. The method of transmission is called In Band On Channel or IBOC. Basically all stations have a certain bandwidth when they transmit their analog signal. The IBOC method uses compressed digital and narrower analog bandwidth to transmit both signals in the same channel as the original signal. (This is way over simplification of what is going on but gives you the idea.)

These IBOC broadcasts exist on both the AM and FM commercial bands. The encoding system used is the one created by iBiquity. No, you won't be able to build your own radio to decode this (at least I have never seen anything stating that iBiquity has release their standards). iBiquity may have licensed it to other companies so they can make radios, but that is about it.

Here is where you can read about iBiquity
http://www.ibiquity.com

Want a radio? Simply choose one and have at it. But be sure to check your area to see if you even have any stations available. There is a web site that can help. Go here:
http://www.hdradio.com

Expect to spend about $150 to $300 on a radio that can receive HD. Prices can go much higher.
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haklesup
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Post by haklesup » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:42 am

The radios are a bit pricey right now but they tend to be quality table top or bookshelf models. If things go like usual, expect to see USB receivers for your PC within a year so you can use your PC sound system. These should be much cheaper. (BTW, this plays right into MS plans to use Vista to make PCs leap off our desks and into our home entertainment systems, you watch, an uptick in ultra quiet PCs will mark this trend)

http://www.nab.org/xert/scitech/pdfs/rd012207.pdf

On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past the record industry to fight that with a flock of lawyers. After all, I can already get software to record anything that comes out of my sound card, regardless of the source. Well, lets see if the record weenies shoot themselves in the foot again while trying to kill a swarm of flies.

A cool think about HD radio, like HDTV, a station can have more than one channel, meaning that they can vary its format. The net effect is more material but not more stations. I'll get one next year when the 2nd or 3rd gen stuff starts hitting the market and the price is lower. Eventually it will be ubiquitous

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jollyrgr
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Post by jollyrgr » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:35 pm

haklesup,

I certainly hope you are right (in your first paragraph) but if I were to bet I'd bet against you. And I'd likely win. I know that one of the two satellite radio services (I want to say it was XM) had a radio that went into your PC. Then someone wrote a program that would detect what the title of the songs were being sent down and record the music. Think TiVO for radio. The RIAA and music industry cried "FOUL! YOU ARE STEALING MUSIC!" So the software and as best as I can tell the hardware no longer are being made. Thus your second thought about a flock of lawyers is more likely what will happen. The RIAA goes after pre-teens for crying out loud. I'd like to see how long they'd last going into China and telling them not to pirate music.
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dacflyer
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Post by dacflyer » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:28 pm

whats so good about HD radio ? if i have a cd of a song here,, how would it sound better thru HD ?
is the stereo expanded or what ? will it have to use more speakers like surround sound?

can someone tell me what hd should sound like, as compared to regular radio or a origional cd.?

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Post by dyarker » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:30 pm

I think the point is listening to music if you don't have the CD.
Dale Y

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dacflyer
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Post by dacflyer » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:37 pm

i know that,,but i ment how is the quality compared to regular radio thats as good as cd quality.?

can radio get any better ??
i haven't had the chance to listen to it anywhere around here yet.

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haklesup
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Post by haklesup » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:51 pm

It's the digital nature of the broadcast that makes it sound truer (better in the opinion of many). Now broadcasters don't need to preprocess the sound to compensate for the inadequacies of the FM band to make it sound good. Now they can broadcast the content as intended (as originally recorded) and let the user (or the reciever) make decisions about the EQ settings for themselves.

Also like HDTV, it has many of the same advantages in terms of the types of interference you get. For example, no fadeout and static, just a sudden drop out. I believe CD quality audio accurately describes it, definitely not better maybe a bit less (WRT sampling rate). In any case, its not commercial free like satellite radio.

They do still sell Stream Rippers and (DVD rippers) but I don't know if they capture the names of the content and break it up into tracks but they seem to. I have noticed that almost none of these products are freeware or uncrippled shareware. The price suggests that there may be licence payoffs somewhere.

Being an over the air broadcast, the content owners have little control over what happens when its recieved, I would expect some sort of watermarking to be in the content stream such that only an appropriate hardware decoder can play it. #1 on the Lawyer hit list would be anyone who dares to post a method to circumvent their copyprotection

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Post by k9ez » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:50 am

dacflyer wrote:i know that,,but i ment how is the quality compared to regular radio thats as good as cd quality.?

can radio get any better ??
i haven't had the chance to listen to it anywhere around here yet.
I have an HD Radio in the car and at home. The quality is much better than regular FM in the following aspects:

A) There is NO, NONE, ZERO background noise. When you listen to HD for a while then switch back to regular FM you really can tell the difference and how fatiguing regular FM can be (seriously!)

B) The high end is extended out to 20kHz.

C) The low end seems to be much tighter, not as muddy.

D) the stereo seperation is much greater in HD.

E) you get the additional HD2 and 3 channels. So there are formats available that you cannot get on regular FM. In addition for the next two years they are commerical free.

F) Right now there is trafffic data being broadcast on many HD stations that will lay traffic info onto Garmin GPS units.

I see you are in Fayetteville. I work on Ft Bragg. We should hook up to give you a demo.

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dacflyer
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Post by dacflyer » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:53 am

wow, cool a local guy. :D
i'd like that...drop a line sometime and lets meet up..i just bought new speakers for my car,,the old ones; the voice coils are falling apart and or the rubber is rotting out.. so it sounds like flys are in the speakers. lol..

who knows, i might be inspired to get a new radio too.. only have a stock radio right now....been looking for a radio that has cd/MP3 player and a port so i can plug in my USB stick and play musik also.

any suggestions ?

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Post by k9ez » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:21 pm

dacflyer wrote:wow, cool a local guy. :D
i'd like that...drop a line sometime and lets meet up..i just bought new speakers for my car,,the old ones; the voice coils are falling apart and or the rubber is rotting out.. so it sounds like flys are in the speakers. lol..

who knows, i might be inspired to get a new radio too.. only have a stock radio right now....been looking for a radio that has cd/MP3 player and a port so i can plug in my USB stick and play musik also.

any suggestions ?
There are so many great radios coming out. The most interesting one is from Visteon. It is a head unit that also has a home docking station. I believe it has a USB port.

I would hang tight for about another 2 months. Or if you really cant wait, there is a JVC HD Radio that plays MP3 etc and is only about $160. I had one ofr a while when I was a chief engineer at a group of radio stations... and yes I did set up a few HD stations. :-D

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dacflyer
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Post by dacflyer » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:29 pm

cool. i am in no rush to get one,, i want to check a few out 1st,,

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jollyrgr
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Post by jollyrgr » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:43 am

K9EZ

Where did you setup stations at? And were any AM "clear channel" stations?

My understanding that HD is supposed to remain free and you state that HD stations are supposed to not broadcast commercials (at least for two years). Based on the setups and encoders you programmed, is there a "serial number" or addressing scheme that will lead to this system becoming a "subscription" based service?

I truly find it hard to believe stations will invest in HD transmission systems without some sort of payback. Even OTA TV stations started demanding payment from cable companies even though the cable companies were obligated to carry the broadcast signals. With the analog model it was FREE for the receiver.

Digital scares me as I've seen way too much greed on the part of content providers. Even with HDTV the big movie studios have tried to ram a Broadcast Flag down consumer's thoats. This was overturned. Only to return as the "Digital Content Protection Act of 2006". (See this story: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/98) Although the bill was introduced it did not become law (thankfully). Sooner or later I believe something like this will get passed; hidden in some other bill. I have not personally tried Windows Vista yet. But the DRM included is so clunky you can forget recording even DATA DVDs.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
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Post by VIRAND » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:30 am

"Being an over the air broadcast, the content owners have little control over what happens when its recieved, I would expect some sort of watermarking to be in the content stream such that only an appropriate hardware decoder can play it. #1 on the Lawyer hit list would be anyone who dares to post a method to circumvent their copyprotection"

Copying the radio is legal. That's what boom boxes are for. There is no copy protection.
The radios may be patented and illegal to sell but not illegal to DIY.
There is no reason to believe that the signal is encrypted since it is "free".
Simply using advanced modulation such as phase shift is not encryption.
SCA is a similar service which is not free, except for personal use.
RDS is a digital SCA which is not really new although compatible radios seem to be.
Personal use SCA is legal but always required extra effort to receive it though.
This may be like retrofitting or upgrading HiFi FM radios to stereo, an equally free signal.

What's "HD" about this? I always ask who was high when they defined HDTV.

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