Need advice! B.SEE or not?

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Sterling Martin
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Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Sterling Martin »

Hi everybody,
I'm new to this forum, but it sure does look like a good one! My question is directed at some of you more experienced techies and engineers. My problem is this: I'm an electrical maintenance technician with no formal training. I'm still quite young (24) and for a long-term goal, would like to get into electrical engineering. Right now I am working with PLC's, VFD's and some things like that, and am unsure if I should wait to get a degree untill I gain some more experience and credits, or if I should try to get a BSEE online. (I can't work and be on campus) Also, what are the pro's and con's of a nationally accredited vs. not-nationally accredited? Again, I'm looking for advice on how to go about landing an engineering job in the future. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks, Sterling.
wd5gnr
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by wd5gnr »

There are only a few legitimate online BSEE degrees and I don't think there are any that are ABET accredited. There are a few BSEET degrees available. It all depends on what you want to get out of it. If you want a Professional Engineering license, ABET is a must. Also, many graduate schools will frown on a non-ABET degree. Graduate schools will also frown on BSEET. Employers like EET degrees, but often think of them as technicians instead of engineers (which isn't really fair and may be a diminishing perception).<p>There are three big schools in this area (not sure which offer EE/EET): [url=http://www.tesc.edu,]www.tesc.edu,[/url] [url=http://www.cosc.edu,]www.cosc.edu,[/url] and www.excelcior.edu. I'd also suggest www.degreeinfo.com<p>Accreditation means different things. The latest trend is for schools to invent accrediting agencies (or band together to form them). You want someone accredited by the "normal" regional agencies that accredit other schools. Without this, your degree might be good for personal satisfaction and/or to actually learn something. But many employers will frown on it and almost all graduate schools will also.
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by joey7f »

EE is a good field no doubt about it. Your technical /practical background will put you in a position of definite advantage. I have little-to-no practical experience (which I am trying rectify with the help of this forum) and it makes theory harder to grasp.<p>If you decide to do it, I highly HIGHLY recommend that you get your math skills sharpened (if that is an issue, but I am guessing that you have not had math for about 6-7 years?) <p>Most engineers that drop out do so while in Calculus I or II. <p>--Joey
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Chris Smith
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Chris Smith »

Get your knowledge any way you can. <p>Later, you can always cash it in for a degree. <p>You can sit for any exam at a community college, [state to state may vary?] called "Challenging the exam" and if you pass, you have your credits.<p> Then you can move on to the next stage.
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Enzo »

Engineering and technicianing are different things. Engineering is math intensive. You will need strong math to get through it. EE has a high washout rate. Where I went to school we calle EE "pre-packaging" Since so many dropped ou tof EE, but they had all the prerequisites for the packaging program, considered an easier program. No shortage of jobs in packaging.<p>Even if you can't attend a college, at least contact the EE program and find out what they expect you to have to enter the program. Is your calculus good? Had diffy-Q?<p>For that matter have you had college at all? You didn't say.<p>Best wishes.
Radioactive
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Radioactive »

The difference between BSEET and BSEE is that the BSEET (which I have) is more hands on and a little less Calculus, although most take everything through Diff Equations (I did this at a local community college). Then you have the entire Math as a BSEE but more hands on. Our senior project was an electric car. Ford hired one of the guys in our group right before graduation. Like the other postings said, because of the labs and hands on training there are no real online BSEE degrees. My University has an online program for BSEET but you still must complete labs and projects on campus.
Department of Engineering Technology University of Central Florida
Here is the distance learning page:
Engineering Technology at a Distance
Remember you need core courses and most of those you can get at your local community college. So that means you can go at night local and then after about two years you can then go on to the last two year upper level with distance learning.
The best thing for you to do is go to your local community college and ask to see a course counselor. They are up on all the newest distance learning and local courses you will need. This is all free to you as long as you are a resident to the community college. Good luck<p>Robert
Engineer1138
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Engineer1138 »

Go for the degree as soon as you can: tuition is always increasing! Your technician experience will be little help in your classes, but it's invaluable when you graduate. A degreed EE with a technician background will be snapped up into a good job the instant he graduates. Most employers expect a new graduate to have a learning curve of at least a year or so until he's very productive. With experience as a tech, you've just shaved off a lot of that time.<p>I'd shy away from the BSEET for the reasons others give: it's limiting. You should go to an ABET accredited school; it really does matter to some employers (mine, for instance).<p>Can you work during the day and go to school at night? That's how I got my Master's. It's tough, and it makes for some very long days but it's worth it. Many employers offer tuition reimbursement as a benefit. I saved over 20k this way and they get a better educated employee as a result.
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philba
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by philba »

I agree with engineer1138. Sooner is better than later and a new college grad with applicable work experience is a hot commodity on the recruiting cicuit. Don't think of it as a degree, think of it as your entry onto a career track.<p>I was a manager for several large, high tech companies and responsible for hiring literally hundreds of college grads over a period of 20 years. When I evaluated a college kid's resume I looked for evidence that the candidate would bring something to the table. Prior relevant work experience was a big one. You've got the potential to be a very hot candidate.<p>School is about more than just getting the knowledge. Its also about making contacts and getting into a career process. You can get all the same knowledge at East Overshoe State as MIT but MIT grads get a lot more offers at a lot higher salary levels. Yes, MIT is unique but there are many schools that have the same characteristics.<p>Pick a school that is recruited by the kind of companies you want to get into. Companies really put a lot of effort into recruiting from specific schools and it makes it just that much easier to get a good job. Big companies will visit maybe 20-30 (or more) schools in search of talent. I doubt institutions that grant degrees on-line are typically on the list.<p>Pick a school that has strong industry contacts and programs. The more exposure you have to the hiring companies, the more likely it is you will get noticed.<p>Many companies have intern programs and summer work. Its a great way to pick up some money and get a chance to see what the company is like. I'd guess that at least 95% of the summer interns that worked for me got full time offers when they graduated. You may take a cut in pay initially but the dividend is being highly sought after when you graduate. <p>Finally, do everything you can to make yourself attractive to the companies. Publish articles, set up a web site to describe your projects, take courses and seminars on the latest trends (i.e. become an expert on newest technology - the companies thirst for that). In short, show some spark of expertise.
gerty
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by gerty »

Another thing that goes a long way, at least here at United Technologies, is continuing education. Electronics is a ever evolving job and those that keep up with it get the promotions..
Don't quit learning just because you have the degree/job..
Sterling Martin
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Sterling Martin »

Thanks for all the advice! I do feel that advice coming from professionals has got to be as good as it gets! I am kind of leaning toward Chris Smith's method. What are the pro's and con's of that method? Also, what are the important exams to take?
I'll give a little better description of myself also. I have started my own electric motor repair shop, and to keep busy in the slow months, have also gotten into building phase convertors and custom built control systems. I'm in a primarily agricultural area, so it is seasonal work. Rewinding motors has been getting tough to do, since the new motors are being manufactured in places like China, and are relatively cheap. So, after three years of owning my own business, I'm going to try to get a job as an electrical maintenance technician. I have not gone to any colleges, and only have a GED.
Thanks for all the great input!!! Any more info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
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jollyrgr
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by jollyrgr »

If you can swing the classes, get the degree. I'd not trust an engineer with an online degree. Would you go to a doctor that got his/her degree online without ever being in a classroom? Would you want a pacemaker installed designed by someone that never attended engineering classes?<p>Engineering is HARD! You cannot expect to take engineering classes online and pass them in a real classroom setting. I took teleclasses for my History and Pysc classes; but then these were the basic 100 level classes. There will be weed out classes as Enzo states. Statics, Dynamics, Circuit Analysis, Chemistry, Physics, and all the math classes (Diff Eq, Calculus) have a high kill rate. And expect to take classes every semester, including summer, for a full load and then some. If I recall right most programs require 120 credit hours to graduate. With all the extras and "linked classes" I think I wound up with just over 146 credit hours.<p>Chris Smith talks about "Challenging the exam". Yes there are these types of processes available to lower you class load. My last semester of college had a 19 credit hour load, including an Independent Study class for Motors and Machines (the only way I could take it and graduate that semester) and my senior design project. As I was getting ready to graduate it was discovered that I never took the Intro to Engineering class; a one credit hour class that teaches you about engineering. The same thing happened to one of my fellow students. Somehow our advisers never realized we had not taken this class. There were two versions of this class; those for Freshmen and those for transfer students. We were graduating in the Fall semester and the class for transfer students was not going to be offered until the following fall. We went to the dean and asked what we could do. Lucky for us he was cool about it. He said if we didn't know what engineering was all about by now, we never would and gave us credit for the class. In all my time in engineering I never heard of anyone getting out of an engineering class, other than the one I sited above, by taking a test. (FYI The test would have been easy. There were questions like what does "LASER stand for?") <p>
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by joey7f »

I wanted to disagree with Engineer1138 (great name btw) when he said that your technician background won't be of much help in the classroom. I totally disagree with that. In my Electronics I class, the guys in the military who did tech work, or those that did so in the private sector always seemed to understand the material better. It was infinitely more relatable to know what a transistor is before you learn about one (I thought it looked like a schematic representation for a while).<p>I have learned more about EE in the lab than in the classroom and I am not sure I am unique in that respect.<p>--Joey
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by cato »

I agree with Enzo. Knowing how to use a PLC or hook up a VFD is very different from understanding how to design one. Understanding transitor Beta and Hfe, hybrid pi models, Laplace Transforms, Fast Fourier Transforms, bode plots, and smith charts is light years from programming ladder diagrams.<p>With a GED I'm guessing you have not taken a course in algebra, geometry or trig. Start there. If you get through trig, then take engineering calculus. If you survive triple integrals, you have a good chance of getting through the rest of the engineering courses. <p>If you get straight A's in trig and the first few semesters of engineering calculus it might be safe to jump in full time to the full engineering course load. Otherwise, I would suggest concentrating on the math.<p>[ December 17, 2004: Message edited by: cato ]</p>
Sterling Martin
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Sterling Martin »

Thanks again everybody, for the great input! I'm with cato on the fact that what I'm doing right now is much easier than engineering. Wich is excactly the reason I want to be an EE! I realize that the BSEE is not a piece of cake. I do have an aptitude to learn though, and I somebody puts something in a textbook, I can learn that something! I also realize that I'm not going to get a BSEE overnight. My problem is that I'm completly ignorant of the college system, and don't know where to start! I like cato's idea of rounding out my math and trig. To summerize, I am wanting to start earning credits, like cato says, that are earning credits and are good "feelers" at the same time. Again, I realize that this is not a "quicky" thing and am positive that I can do it, but just don't know how or where to start. Thanks again for the priceless information! Any more would also be greatly appreciated! Sterling.
Engineer1138
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Re: Need advice! B.SEE or not?

Post by Engineer1138 »

Sterling: OK. To start, find a school that is well rated and looks affordable. Talk to the people in admissions and find out what their prerequirements are. Then find out how many of the basic core classes you may transfer in from a community college (CCs are usually much cheaper than universities, and the teaching is often much better for core classes). Now you can decide how/when to take those prerequisites and other classes and what your schedule would be for enrolling in the university.<p>Joey7F: Does this mean that someone finally recognizes the "1138" bit ;)
I was an electronics hobbyist before entering college as an EE major. It helped with labs, since I knew what the parts looked like, not to run 5W through a .25W resistor, etc. But it was absolutely no help in class. Usually by the end of the first day of any given class, we had already moved past the amount of theory I previously knew.
Good to see other people had different experiences.
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