Goodbye RFID

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Newz2000
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Goodbye RFID

Post by Newz2000 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:47 am

http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=23026

Found that on slashdot (which seems to be down) here.

Basically it is a memory chip from HP holding from between 256Kb and 4Mb of memory and is accessible wirelessly at up to 10Mb/s. It needs no power source, but uses inductive coupling to get the power. Oh, and they describe it as being roughly about the same size as a grain of rice.

Now who on earth would be happy with a measely 127 bytes from RFID when you can have 512KB (4Mb) on this? I guess it doesn't have the range offered by RFID, which might make this even more acceptable in the public's eye.

bearing01
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Post by bearing01 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:02 pm

Like it says.... it's distance limited (as of today). Maybe when it can work over longer distances then it may compete. Then it will depend on cost. The cheaper solution (that gets the job done) always wins.

However, I'm sure that applications will be developed for this new technology that could never be supported by today's RFID. THen when volumes get high and cost comes down it may compete with RFID.
[quote="Chris Smith"]What does the smell of “piss in the windâ€

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Bob Scott
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Post by Bob Scott » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:05 pm

Hi Matt.

Quote: "Now who on earth would be happy with a measely 127 bytes from RFID"?

Yours is an interesting post. The "grain of rice" new memory device from HP brings visions of spies or using microdots for industrial and government espionage, although I a microdot is just a piece of photographic film and would have less information storage capability than the grain of rice.

This device has a different purpose than the RFID. 127 bytes in the RFID is enough to hold one large unique identification number. And assuming it uses 8 bit bytes, one unique number out of 16^127 possible numbers. These numbers can be used as a key in a remote database for as much information about that one ID number that an entity would want to record.

If I had an RFID implanted in a pet or stuck onto any personal property I choose for that matter, I wouldn't want my any of my personal information stored on it and available to just anyone with a scanner. Only the entity with the database information that I supply to them exclusively would have access to whatever information I supply. So for that purpose, an RFID number is all that is required, and that number would be meaningless to any nosy person with a scanner but without access to the database.

Inserting all of the personal information on the HP edvice would leave the information vulnerable to any nosy person. I wouldn't trust it even if the data was scrambled.

Bob :cool:

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dacflyer
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Post by dacflyer » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:08 pm

all of these wireless things and all the radio waves are eatting away at my brain :shock:
how much more can we take before we go Bzzzzzttt ! POP !

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Post by stevech » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:13 pm

well - people have lived next door to huge mega power AM radio station towers for decades. And not gone zzzzztt!

The Inverse Square Law Is Your Friend.

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Post by Dean Huster » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:52 am

George Orwell could have written an even scarier book had he been living in today's world of RFID, Bluetooth, GPS, WiFi, cellular phones .... hey!! All that crap is wireless, isn't it?

Scares the snot out of me. But I'm sure that our government and manufacturers will insure that we will NEEEEEEVER have to worry about ID theft, fraud, etc. via any RF means. (Now where's that little emoticon with the one cheek all pushed out?)

Hail, hail, hail the great and wonderful electronic technology of 1963. If only we could have it again and all this electronic effluent of today was nothing more than a mere nightmare!

Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

R.I.P.

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haklesup
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Post by haklesup » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:36 am

Maybe when it can work over longer distances then it may compete.
Any such RF powered memory device wheather it be this one or an RFID on a product a walmart would be subject to the same principals. In the case of RFID in products labels, they can incorporate a rather large antenna which maximizes energy capture and retransmission efficiency. Something the size of rice certainly has not much of an antenna.

Take that inverse square law for example. Not only does the power from the transmitter diminish that fast over distance but the re-radiated power from the RFID tag is also diminished in the return trip. Thus transmitter power and antenna size (on the chip) are the primary influences on range. Reciever sensitivity is also an important factor as its the return trip that is the weakest signal and perhaps the best opportunity to improve performance.

As for the size of an implantable device, I'd want at least 256K just for the encryption key. But there are plenty of non biological applications for this. Smart ID badges, Transportation system tickets, High value product authentication (just try and spot a fake rolex or bottle of XO these days). These tags can be molded into any product you want. How about non contact SIM card for your phone. Put one in a ring and now you can use any cell phone or public payphone and have your account charged. Non contact credit or cash card. Just press it to a coke machine and get a can.

I do think though the ultimate killer app would be a non contact USB stick without the USB connector. Since the chips and packaging are so small, the size limiting factor is the connector system. Not sure exactly what form it will ultimately take though, some kind of jewelery perhaps.

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Post by stevech » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:50 pm

having worked with RFID in my job (several kinds), the general case is that really cheap RFID tags (teeny capsules or labels) have a read range of 1-4 inches. The amount of RF used to read them is quite small and the emissions are very, very brief. But the lunatic paranoids can still holler.

Let's get rid of the 5 watt (now that's a fair amount) walkie-talkies that police/fire use as an RF hazard - and see who gripes.

JPKNHTP
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Post by JPKNHTP » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:33 pm

-JPKNHTP
-God Bless

VIRAND
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Post by VIRAND » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:50 pm

stevech wrote:having worked with RFID in my job (several kinds), the general case is that really cheap RFID tags (teeny capsules or labels) have a read range of 1-4 inches. The amount of RF used to read them is quite small and the emissions are very, very brief. But the lunatic paranoids can still holler.

Let's get rid of the 5 watt (now that's a fair amount) walkie-talkies that police/fire use as an RF hazard - and see who gripes.

:evil:
Haha. If I can find your dog's tags then I can find you too.
Big Brother loves you. Now Bend Over.
Don't worry the antenna only has a range of 4 inches and the emissions are very, very brief.
But the lunatic paranoids can still holler...

They have 5 watt walkie-talkies.

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philba
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Post by philba » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:44 pm

ya know, for the longest times the lunatics would wrap their heads in aluminum foil. hmmm, maybe not so dumb - doesn't make a Faraday Cage?

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:54 pm

RFID is good for better than 50 feet.

Already been done.

stevech
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Post by stevech » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:13 pm

Chris Smith wrote:RFID is good for better than 50 feet.

Already been done.
yes, but not with a tiny battery-less tag.

stevech
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Post by stevech » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:14 pm


:evil:
Haha. If I can find your dog's tags then I can find you too.
Big Brother loves you. Now Bend Over.
Don't worry the antenna only has a range of 4 inches and the emissions are very, very brief.
But the lunatic paranoids can still holler...

They have 5 watt walkie-talkies.
A look at the poster's home city explains the 'tude

VIRAND
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Post by VIRAND » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:15 am

Look! Stevech came here on 6/6/6 to give us the Mark Of The Beast.
Dogs, who's your master?
Red states, show me your papers! Identify yourself!
Open your bibles to Revelation 13 and get your free real estate in Yellowstone National Park.

This isn't personal. It's a joke, but like many jokes, not too funny.
That even before the UAVs and the Las Vegas style architectural recycling demo,
people believed that cavemen from the desert on the other side of the planet
were delivering yellow truck loads of exploading Bu**Sh*t.

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