another capacitor question???

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:33 pm

No, But I have learned timing in electronics.

One of the things that is first left out of electronics, yet we all use it daily, but for some reason we don’t include it is the fact of time? Why?

Any total value is based upon time, splitting it up, its use V.S. its non use, etc.

The poly phase motor at all speeds says at one point in time, this is what I need. [including the start time]

Nothing less, nothing more.

A cap can do two basics, first it can alter time, second and through the use of time, it can alter resistance or voltage because when its all added up at the end of the day, the frequency and time always accounts for much less then the solid or on state, like any typical DC circuit.

Math might seem simple, but ohms law always shows us where we went wrong?

Remember RMS? Dont blow it, dont over heat it.

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Post by rshayes » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:08 am

Both AC and DC motors require a moving magnetic filed to start. In a DC or universal motor, the movement is caused by sequentially switching power to a series of coils, depending on the position of the rotor. In AC motors, the moving field is created by applying power with different phases to two or more windings. In a 2 phase motor, the ideal phase relationship is 90 degrees applied to two windings that are at right angles to each other. In a three phase motor, three windings are excited by currents that are 120 degrees from each other applied to three equally spaced windings.

In a capacitor start motor, the starting winding is excited by a current that is approximately 90 out of phase with the running winding. This phase shift is obtained by using a series capacitance with a shunt inductor (the motor winding). The capacitor alone does not provide sufficient phase shift before the current becomes too small to be useful. The phase shift is about 90 degrees when the resonant frequency of the series capacitor and parallel inductor corresponds to the AC line frequency.

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Post by bearing01 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:37 pm

Chris Smith wrote: Math might seem simple, but ohms law always shows us where we went wrong?
No offense to you Chris. I design radios professionally for products that are sold by the millions and I still have no clue what you're talking about or what your point is.

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:37 pm

Time is not that hard to understand.

Most people in electronics don’t have a clue.

Caps take time to charge, time to discharge, and a Resistance path in-between this time frame.

Even at the speed of Electricity or Light it still takes time to go down a few nano meters of wire.

Unless your look for the missing time you will never have a clue about caps, or most of the other things related to electrical parts.

Nothing is instantaneous in electricity or even with light.

DC, DC pulsating, and AC don’t act the same.

DC is fairly easy to understand, DC pulsating and AC are quite different.

If you need to drop a voltage in AC down from 120 to 6 volts for a heater element, Reactance and a simple cap will do the job only because of timing. Or you can try to regulate it with a zener, resist it with a common resistor, modulate it with a transistor, or one of the other means?

The cap tries to drive it self at 120 V but time says you cant but because of reactance and simple timing [60hz] while the other end of the load always prohibits it from achieving the 120 volts by not being a open circuit.

Timing and resistance does the rest.

Very simple concept.

And if that complicate the matter try time and light, things go even faster.

And that is the Physics of Electronics.

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Post by dyarker » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:20 pm

Bearing01,

Ignore Chris, the truth is he doesn't know what he's talking about any more than you know what he's talking about. For a couple weeks he'll give corect answers even though he's got the "why" wrong. Then he goes ... for a few days; sort-of wrong, undecypherable gibberish, or complete reversal (like in the course adjust/fine adjust thread). After an ... ah ... heated discussion a couple months ago, I don't repond/acknowledge his posts unless what he said is unsafe.

The post immediately above is essentially correct.
Dale Y

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:45 am

Sounds like dummy patrol taking over once again?

Isnt it easier to just say you dont have a clue, than to pretend you do?

What you seem to know fits in the teaspoon, with room left over.

Physics is always undecipherable to the ignorant, so is reality.

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Post by bearing01 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:22 am

Chris,

During my travels I have encountered people that approach electronics from two directions. One being from a physics (scientific approach) and another being from an electrical engineering approach. Both trains of thought will (at the end of the day) arrive at the same answer or solution. Someone with a physics background does not understand electronics More or Better than someone from an electrical engineering back ground. No offense, but most of the electronics in this world are designed & developed by engineers, not physicists. We happen to do it correctly while using analysis techniques that account for all the things you mentioned above. Things like "timing" are not forgotten. It's just not a primary concern in many applications once the circuit has achieved steady state operation. As far as delay is of concern, well it's not until you get into millimeter wave circuit design (25+ GHz) that lumped element circuits require distributed electronic analysis techniques. As for Microwave design techniques, that deals with all your concerns for frequencies above 2GHz.

I could address your points mentioned above like electrons down a wire and using inductance/capacitance to step down a voltage to show you the practical engineering perspective... but I seen no point. This thread could go on forever arguing with different points of view.

You did make a correct point in that some people that dabble with electronics as a hobby don't understand what they're doing. This is true of anyone who has no formal education with electronics that only knows V=I*R and P=I*V. It doesn't mean they can't string batteries, resistors & lights together and have some fun & maybe learn something.

Just because you recently learned something and/or think you know your stuff doesn't mean others out there don't already know it as well.

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:05 pm

Sorry, but despite the fact that many cant stand it, the sun always comes up in the east?

I dont have time for nay sayser.

Listen and learn, or just place your head in the sand with the rest?


Voltage and frequency control using caps
Voltage and Frequency Control With Adaptive Reaction
The electrical capacitance of a capacitor that uses the soil as ...
Time in Multiple-Clock-Domain Processors
Capacitor changes the magnitude of the impulse bit.....
An Electrochemical Capacitor Based on a Ni(OH)/Activated Carbon ...
The time delay is determined by the values of the resistor (R1) and capacitor (C1).
The capacitor stores energy in the dielectric as an electric field. ... the total heat of reaction is 4x106 J.
A capacitor and a pMOS FET acting as a current source.



Pretend with the rest or break out and learn with out your blinder on.


Good reading for the rocket science challenged?
http://www.oz.net/~coilgun/theory/capacitorcharging.htm

Like time and caps have no simalarities?

What is this Captain Kangaroo court? [Or worse, voting day]

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Post by bearing01 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:23 pm

What kind of drugs are you on?

A few posts back I thought you were serious. Now I think you're just playing with me... trying to make us think you are nuts. You have achieved that loud & clear.

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:17 pm

Are you serious or just stroking me?
What.
Waste my time with up and comings, as if?
Try listening and learning?

Get a grip, how many nay sayers here have their works in print, how may wish they could shuck the chains of a formal education?

Go waste some one else’s time?

bearing01
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Post by bearing01 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:58 pm

Chris,
I don't need to be school'd by you. I have many years of formal university level education in electrical engineering specifically in electronics. I get paid alot of money to design electronics. I have fine tuned my education in electronics by designing circuits for many years. I really doubt there is anything that you could teach me.

The confusing thing with you is that you don't write in complete sentences. You have a real problem in communicating with others through your writing. It appears you try to impress others by writing these scientific "one liners", trying to look like you're smart & all. The truth is it's not working. I (and apparently others) have a hard time understanding you. This is to your own detriment because it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

I never did judge or question your knowledge on the subject of electronics. I don't know you from Adam and you surely don't know me. All this time I have been reading the crap you write with the intent to try and make sense of it. The more you write the less sense it makes.
Chris Smith wrote: Go waste some one else’s time?
And by the way, a question mark (which is this symbol: "?") is intended to go at the end of a question, not a statement. You should learn how to use them and other punctuation too. Stringing together sentences to form a complete idea would also help others understand you. Maybe you should go take some writing classes also!

I'm done with this thread.

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:20 pm

sorry,...No offence intended?

That’s really nice?
Your travels?
Your education?
Your offence?
Like I care?

Sorry, been there, done that, many times over.
Almost 40 countries last time I checked?

A hell of a lot more than most, by the dozen.
Please don’t expose a formal education, I have been there, done that?

I even challenged the formal education system, and walked way with a certificate in just days?

And Physics, over twenty years later it is “just funâ€

bearing01
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Post by bearing01 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:35 pm

Thank you.


Once again you have proven my point!

You didn't get the bit about the question mark, did you?

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Chris Smith
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Post by Chris Smith » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:48 pm

Victory can be found any where you make your choice?
Ignorance is the best starting point?

Sounds like over time is hard at work here?
Perhaps your young and touchy feely?

I have far less time to waste on those nay sayers.
[you go for it, dreamer?]

Learn or put your head back in the sand, but please don’t waste my time little chicken?

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Post by SETEC_Astronomy » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:08 pm

Chris you say you don't have time to waste and yet you keep responding. Your responses never make much sense. I can't tell if you know that you're writing or not. It often seems like your posts are a failed attempt at old timer wisdom written as poetry. I have seen many threads where someone will ask a straight forward simple question and you respond with something way beyond left field and then as bearing01 mentioned you end it with a ?. I have often thought to ask you if your period key is broken. Someone may ask where to buy a computer and you respond "McDonald's has good fries?" Are you losing it or do you have time to waste and you do waste it? Sometimes you seem as if you are responding to a post just to get your number of responses/posts up. Please enlighten us.

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