Zapped ROM cards

[Bernius1]

I've heard of people's ROM cards for certain
'serialized' devices being remotely zapped, so that they're useless. I explained to one such
possessor that the zap must be a 12V burst to a
EEPROM chip, and that regulating all the pin
connections to 5V would prevent this. My idea was
shrugged (obvious reasons) ,but I still think I
was right. What do you think?

[Chris Smith]

If your talking about Satellite Cards, they don't get Zapped, they get "looped".<p>To have a 12 volt source available at the card to fry it presents a risk to more than the card, and hence one of the many ways of rendering it useless is to send it on the equivalence of searching for Pi.<p> It cant solve the equation and it never stops trying, or looping infinitely in its quest for the solution. <p>the actual process is different from this, but for analogy sake, you get the point. <p>Even Zapped/looped cards can be brough back.

[Bernius1]

Thanks. I thought I heard that the early bi-directional cable boxes were zappable with a pulse, and my understanding was that when a satellite co. saw two box serial #'s active
simultaneously,they'd send a digital code to your
box to command it to re-write the EEPROM with a pulse (12V on most EEPROMS). I understand what you say about the loop (except why it wouldn't
clear with power removed, & CAP voltages discharged), but I was most intrigued with over-
write protection on discreet digital systems,to
make them hack/zap/tamper -proof. I figured a diode as a clamp on each line, with any >5V levels going through a regulator to GND. But that may allow cross-talk and excessive noise.

[Chris Smith]

With 12 billion bits of info per second, they load the feed stream with all sorts of codes besides the tiny amount of actual TV data. Your card is safe when unplugged but the second its powered up and receive the whole signal package m [bug/virus etc], it loops. Not even blocker's* work because the card is the computer that deciphers and it also accept the signal unhindered.
To block* the signal you need a complete second computer with a minimal decipher program that can discriminate between what is needed, and what is not, on the fly.
Also if you use a whole computer instead of a card, with a anti loop program it will run and fix it self on the fly. But all this is "easy sounding words" and in reality, much harder than it sounds.

[Chris Smith]

Cable boxes are different than sattelite. The ZAP in that is different, and the device to protect from that is called a "Bullit"..<p>
The eprom recieves a "special" signl, and self destructs the program only. Simalar to Sattelite cards?

[Bernius1]

Thanks. For the few programs worth watching, and
with the decrease in prices, it seems better not to get involved with the decoder boards. But to
decipher the encryption, or log the last data prior to loop would be interesting. The one board I saw was long ( about 5") with what looked
like a PLD or PIC chip at the outer end. All SMD
devices, too. But expensive, they say. I'm more
glued to the voltage-control & security aspect of
remote systems with 12V flash memory. Thanks again........no_vice

[Bob Haller]

I was a Dish dealer for a while. People stealing service is so sad, it often costs more than just subscribing. The new PVRs change how you watch tv. Although a curious question was asked here I hope this place never turns into a how to steal anything location.<p>Frankly I hope security is improved. I once suggested to dish something security related, they used my idea and I got to attend the echostar six launch as a VIP. Had a wonderful time.<p>I wonder if people stealing service will also pick my pocket and steal my car? Sorry its a hot button for me...

[Chris Smith]

Bob ,a lot of people break the bank just because "it was there". They "leave the money" there and leave. <p>
Its a "who is smarter than who" scenario? [A game]<p>
The challenge of it is the thrill just like Benign hackers.<p>Then there are the whole sale thefts for profit which I certainly cant agree with.

[HomeBrew]

It's not like the service providers and equipment mfg.s didn't know this was coming. The same system failed in overseas use . It was predicted the same thing would happen here too. The old c-band videocypher system was hacked before it really got going and hackers only lost interest when DSS came along. Now, just as then, many hackers make a good income selling broken systems to people who are tired of being overcharged. True,pricing is better than before, but it's still a little steep for what you get. The main draw is the PPV and adult channels for free. I know many people who have hacked systems and it's really not that hard to do. I feel that this battle will continue for some time because the current DSS system is so weak on security.

[Bernius1]

Bob H, you're right. Theft is theft. For me the
circuit design was the draw, because piracy has
one goal, piracy, but a good circuit design can
be applicable anywhere. For the cat&mouse aspect,
I'm used to back-door hacking of my own Windows
OS & programs, just to get it to do what DOS &
DBASE & FOXpro did so easily. Remember, there's
an inverse relationship between ease of use and
ease of access to data in computers

[Bob Haller]

I dont object to a person doing it ONLY for themselves, out of the challenge of it. Its the folks who sell and spam the world that bothers me. Frankly I would like to see some end users in the slammer along with the sellers. This would discourage everyone involved.<p>The widespread theft devalues the service and makes people think it unreliable.<p>Its only unreliable for thiefs....