*** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

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BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:29 pm

The Fluke (Phillips) PM3055 is another model Ive heard good things about. So many choices, sigh....

Dean Huster
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by Dean Huster » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:15 pm

I would like to say, all Tek Blue aside, that I'm the last person to say to someone who loves his Hewlett-Packard 130C, "What a crappy scope. Ain't got no bandwidth. Tubes. Junk!"<p>Nope. If the hp 130C works for what you need, that's wonderful! (Actually, the 130C is a fantastic audio scope and is MUCH better than the direct competitor, the Tektronix 503. See? Not always Tek Blue!)<p>In other words, it doesn't matter what you have. It's great! If every electronics experimenter waited until he/she got a Tek 7904 before messing with the hobby, they'd still be collecting butterflies or stamps.<p>If you check out the antique radio site at http://www.antiqueradios.com , you'll see that a lot of those guys use old service scopes from the 1950's and love it. I wouldn't like it, but for them, it's great. They do what they want and they're using nostalgic equipment to fix nostalgic equipment. You should see the old TV repairmen that would take a Telequipment scope over any other brand. Personally, I absolutely HATE TQ, but for that TV man, it was fine. And I'd never tell him that he was dumb for liking it, because he wasn't. It's just preference.<p>I loved my 1985 diesel Golf. Eeewwwwww!! A diesel!<p>Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

R.I.P.

BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:23 pm


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Edd
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by Edd » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:14 pm

Well it looks like “BeatleFreddy” was the winning bidder , so if the units functionality, particularly the switches , and and has good brite tube with no gassiness….. looks like you got yourself a winner. Also that you didn’t live so far, that shipping cost was not a big factor also ! I also have the 465 and the 475 as well as the 466 storage version units, all with the counter/DVM topmates. Just occasionally (years) have to clean switches and do a PM oiling of the cooling fan motors. One of the 10 turn pots on the counter unit required replacement. And an opening of a hi meg resistor caused a drifting out of range of the focus voltage on the 475. Looks like you even got the good OEM Tek probes….and HOPEFULLY the scopes manual was in the top pouch. <p>73's de Edd
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BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:12 pm

Hi Edd- well, the seller is in California and I'm in New York, so I dont know if thats really close in terms of shipping cost.<p>The Ebay buying price was decent, but the Seller cant say for sure whether the scope needs a Cal or not. I did ask Tektronix about evaluating the scope if I sent it to them and I also asked someone else whose place I found Online that tests/repairs/sells all types of Test Equipment, here are their replies:<p>Hello Fred,<p>Thank you for your inquiry. The 475A instruments are no longer supported for repair services and parts are no longer available through Tektronix. Our last year of support for service was 1994. This instrument can still be calibrated by Tektronix but can no longer be repaired. If Tektronix is unable to complete the calibration because the product needs repair, we will return the product to you with a "Customer Copy" reporting the failure and any measurements reviewed that do not meet published specifications. You will be charged $300, or the standard calibration fee, whichever is less. It is especially important that you provide adequate packaging to prevent any freight damage to your instrument during transportation. No warranty will apply to the calibration or freight damage as we do not have repair capability on this instrument.<p>The calibration cost on this unit is at $255.00 and if you need the optional before and after data readings there is additional fee of $65.00 for this repair.<p>The pricing listed is subject to change and to Tektronix Terms and Conditions.

We are not able to recommend specific alternative services or sources due to brand and legal requirements; however, we can recommend that you search the Web for Tektronix products, specifically your product, to look for additional information and assistance. Additional information on Tektronix instruments and out of support products may be found at our web site at http://www.tek.com/Measurement/Service/ ... lcome.html
If you have any questions or require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.<p>Sincerely,<p>Pia<p>Americas Service Support Center
Tektronix, Inc. www.tektronix.com
1-800-833-9200, Press "2" FAX: (503) 627-6260,
E-mail: [email protected]
Instrument Service Booking or to Request a Quote:
http://www.tek.com/Measurement/Service/ ... lcome.html<p>Fred,<p>that one you bought on Ebay looks pretty nice.
you can have it shipped prepaid to our broker
(must have an invoice externally attached showing value and country of
origin) at the address below:
Sphere Research Corporation
C/O Summit Pak Warehouse
1312 Main (Alley)
Oroville, WA 98844
you would have to pay all brokerage and freight, as well as freight back to
you.our charge for cal/repair is US$75/hour plus parts. typical for this
model is about 3 hours if no serious problems.<p>regards,
Walter<p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Shawlee 2 Sphere Research Corporation
1818 Byland Rd. Kelowna, B.C. Canada V1Z 1A9
Tel: (250) 769-1834 FAX: (250) 769-4106
URL: http://www.sphere.bc.ca

BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:15 pm

Walter had also written to me a response regarding my questions about the various Tektronix models:<p>Fred,<p>The 465B/DM44 is one of the very best incarnations of that scope,.
I'd put them in this order of desirability:<p>best
465B/DM44
465B
465M
465 (s/n >B200 000)<p>avoid:
465 below s/n B100 000 or any unit with the DM43 top section.<p>the 22xx series uses cheaper construction, and has some CRT problems (very
cheap tube, often went gassy),
the 221X series is not recommended, or the 222X, they are substandard in
quality and construction, many were made in Hong Kong.<p>the 2235 is Ok, as a 465 series sub, and actually has some interesting
sweep features like dual sweep.
it was used as a mil scope, so they were forced to do a much better job on
the design. the 2245 and 2246 are quite nice, use a 2246 myself. a bit
hard to support though, as many unique tek hybrids are used, and some are
heat/fault prone.<p>the bigger 7K series are also excellent scopes, and capable of 500Mhz real
time bandwidth (7903/7904),
very high quality, and now quite affordable. use a 7603 and 7904A regularly.<p>digital scopes are a real problem for both audio and video applications,
and they tend to make everything look noisy due to bit jitter during
conversion. aliasing and loss of transients remain problems with those
scopes. frankly, if you want a picture of what's on screen, use a digital
camera.<p>Regards,
Walter

BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:09 pm

By any chance, does anyone know of a reputable place in the New York area that I can have the scope I just bought sent to for Evaluation?<p>As you can read from the copy of the Tektronix message that I displayed in my previous post, they only do Calibrations, they will not perform any repairs to the scope (if they find that its needed)- but I would still have to pay a hefty $$ charge for their evaluation anyway. Obviously I wouldnt be happy about that- paying them alot of money only to find out I have a broken scope which they wont fix.<p>Walter who has a place of business in Canada can examine the scope but he told me that shipping to him and then back to me would be expensive, and also he said that unlike Tektronix, he does not provide any Before & After test data. I am concerned about that because it would be useful to me, since I am the one paying them to do the evaluation work (Calibration and any repairs), that I have some kind of written evidence on the before & after of the scope's performance, that way I have an idea of how much adjustment work was required by them to get the scope back to its optimum operational capability. <p>I did ask the Ebay Seller to do a CRT test as mentioned in a previous post by someone here- to turn the Intensity control clockwise and observe if ther beam fluctuates between gettting brighter& dimmer, I'm now awaiting the seller's reply.<p>Fred.

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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by Dean Huster » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:50 pm

Tek is one of the last places you want to do a calibration if money is an issue, for their calibration charges will usually take your breath away. Tek supported the 453/453A longer than any other scope they ever made, extending their normal support period because of some many that were out there with big customers. They've sold more 465's, but didn't extend those service years. Tek's feeling has always been that because of the high quality of their products, they are sometimes their own nastiest competitor. When all the 7K and newer 400-series portables started hitting the surplus market at pennies on the dollar, their new equipment sales began to suffer. By making sure of forced obsolescence, they are eliminating themselves as a competitor. It's such a shame.<p>Check the Yellow Pages under "Test Equipment" for places that will do the calibration. My gosh, you should be able to find several independent cal shops in the NYC metro area! Most cities of at least 1-2 million have at least 2 or 3 shops. If you can't find anything, contact the repair shops of some large electronics companies and see if they can help you out with cal sources. The larger companies may have their own internal cal shops, but more and more and outsourcing their calibration since maintaining your own NIST traceable shop is expensive.<p>With some fairly simple equipment, you can check out most of the major calibration of an oscilloscope. A function generator or RF generator and frequency counter will check out the timebase easily. A DMM along with a variable power supply will check out the vertical calibration on DC without having to have a standard amplitude calibrator.<p>Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

R.I.P.

BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Sun Aug 17, 2003 8:55 pm

Hi Dean:<p>Yes, you would think here in "Noo Yawk" that there would be many places that exist where a scope can be evaluated- and I will check on that, but its been my experience that there really arent that many good places in the area that are very knowledegable when it comes to repair on vintage hi fi stereo equipment (my main hobby) so I figured that likewise, it would be the same situation with Scope Calibrations.<p>I did email the Seller to try and get more Info on the background history of the unit- it was supposedly used in an IBM Lab, but thats all I know, I asked the Seller if the scope was in service until recently and when its last official Cal was or if its been sitting inactive for a long period of time, awaiting response. <p>S/n of unit is #B022140, from what I understand the 475A was made from 1977-1984, just wondering what year the one I am acquiring was manufactured.<p>I presume that the 475A wasnt as popular as the 465B because at 250 MHz it was a bit more $$ to buy New than a 465B thus less people bought them?<p>I'd like to obtain all the test equipment I need to setup a good workbench and begin getting more into electronic testing. Can anyone give me a rundown on what those pieces of test equipment are (signal gen, Oscillator, Distortion Analyzer, Power Supply etc...) and can recommend any specific models?<p>-Fred

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Edd
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by Edd » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:02 pm

Fred:
No slight chance that Beatle would be VW oriented…most commonly altered to Beetle tho?<p>I think that you are worrying far greater than you potentially need to on a “factory cal” of that scope ….considering the potential intended initial use of the scope. In the use on old classics the potentially worse case that you might see is the confirmation of local oscillator action /presence in its circuitry as well as the IF and RF envelopes along with an occasional check of the 38khz in older stereo decoder circuitry as well as nulling the 67khz trap circuitry. None of the aforementioned being much of a challenge to that scope….nothing critical…like the observation of nanosecond jitter on a 100 mhz osc ckt. <p>The other item to be referenced to was already covered in the last para of the above post. Field checking the DC vert cal with a cluster of a variable DC PS, a DMM and the scope and run up the DC level as you reference check against the scope trace/graticule. Your voltage level readings on a scope are somewhat inherently cramped anyhow. That’s where the DMM comes into play, on those readings.
HOWEVER if you have a quick waveform coming in, that trace will tell you level info
before an analog meter can start to respond/wake up or even longer for a DMM to ratchet up to range. My only/fastest metering, even slightly close, is the LCD analog “hash marks” on some of my Flukes.
A rough time base is available on your ref cal sq wave…or if you are near an u/p driven board there’s always the common 4,8,16,32Mhz,etc clock osc on board for taking a rough reference.
Be sure to check the scope probes freq compensation on the probes, you’ll learn something about undershoot and overshoot response on a squarewave.<p>Your vintage with that SN# should be ‘82ish.<p>Gotta go….Comcast sig is stuttering….. :confused: <p>73's de Edd
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BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:29 pm

Hello Edd:<p>Thanks for the good Info and also the approx date of the scope- Tektronix themself seemed unable to tell me when it was made (see copy of their latest reply below this message), you'd think if anyone would know it would be the actual Company that manufactured the product, sigh...<p>The Beatle name does refer to that famous 60's band :) (and my resemblance to a Mr. Paul McCartney) When it comes to cars, I like the Honda Accord- especially the '86-'89 style Accords with the cool pop-up headlights. My '87 is still going strong at over 200K miles. My brother owned two VW's and they both gave him alot of problems- especially electrical-related problems. I imagine though that VW has come a long way since the unreliable '75 Rabbit my brother had. Ive heard alot of good things about the Passat.

BeatleFred
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Re: *** Need Help Choosing a Tektronix Scope ***

Post by BeatleFred » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:30 pm

Hello Fred,

Thank you for your reply. The 475A Oscilloscopes are serviced for calibration at our Beaverton, Oregon service Depot. We offer complimentary shipping to and from the service center. We were unable to track you specific product as the unit with serial number of B022140 is beyond our current and most recent data base information.

In your original request it is noted that you are seeking calibration/evaluation. Please be advised, the 475A instruments are calibration only instruments. We no longer offer repair or evaluations for the 475A.

If you have any questions or require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Sincerely,<p>Aimee,
Americas Service Support Center
Tektronix, Inc. www.tektronix.com
1-800-833-9200, Press "2" FAX: (503) 627-6260,
E-mail: [email protected]

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