mc4016

[IRONMAN]

I need a detailed data sheet(s) for this chip A.K.A. the 74416, I have limited info about it from the TTL cookbook. Looked around, CANNOT find it, I assume its been phased out? Even so surely there is still info somewhere?
Thanks guys.

[desterline]

Try this one from OnSemi:<p>http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC14016B-D.PDF<p>or this one from Fairchild:<p>http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/CD/CD4016BC.pdf<p>Denny<p>[ July 15, 2003: Message edited by: desterline ]</p>

[Ron H]

The 4016 in its various incarnations is an analog switch. Where did you get the number 74416? It appears to be a bogus number.<p>Ron

[IRONMAN]

desterline;
Thanks for trying but see below.<p>Ron;
the mc4016 is an MTTL device, not a cmos device.
It's easy to confuse the two because they both have the 4016 in their part #'s.
The device I'm looking for is a decade ripple down-counter, with presets.<p>[ July 15, 2003: Message edited by: IRONMAN ]</p>

[Ron H]

A thousand pardons. After looking at the datasheet, I remember this part from my younger days. You can get the datasheet at Free Trade Zone. You'll have to register first, but it's free.
BTW, why do you need the datasheet? Pardons also for the 74416. I found a web page(in Spanish) that has them for US $50. <p>Ron<p>[ July 15, 2003: Message edited by: RonH ]</p>

[IRONMAN]

I was planning something along the lines of an N and only N pulser, using three 4016's along with some BCD switches to pre-load a number from 1 to 999, I thought it would be handy to be able to step clocked circuits through a selectable number.
However @ fifty bucks(F@#$%^G ouch! ) a pop I think I'll look at alternatives.
Thanks anyway.

[Ron H]

Do you already have the 4016's? There are several different decade counters available - which you probably already know. If not, do a Google search for "presettable decade counter".

[IRONMAN]

No I don't have any, I was trying to keep the circuit as simple as possible, and the 4016's have look ahead capability built in(I.E. only reloading the preset number when all units that are cascaded together hit zero simultaneously.).
I'll come up with another scheme, I was just trying to be lazy.

[rshayes]

Oddly enough, the data sheet for the MC4016 was published by Motorola in the MECL Data Book.<p>The MC4016 is a TTL part. It was one of a series of TTL parts (MC4000 series) that Motorola introduced about 1970 to compete with the SN7400 series TTL parts sold by Texas Instruments. The SN7400 series became the industry standard, and the MC4000 series mostly disappeared, since the same functions were available in the SN7400 series. Two parts, the MC4024 and the MC4044 didn't vanish, since they had no parallel part in the SN7400 series. The MC4024 was a dual voltage controlled oscillator (VCO) and the MC4044 was a phase detector. These were used in phase locked loops (PLL) for frequency synthesis and stayed in production much longer than the other parts in the series. They may still be in production for all I know. The original ap notes for the MC4024 and MC4044 used the MC4016 as programmable dividers in PLL circuits.<p>Motorola introduced subsequent parts such as VCOs and phase detectors, but these were made with emitter coupled logic (ECL). The MC4016, 4024, and 4044 were bundled together with the ECL PLL parts in a special section at the back of the Motorola MECL Handbook.<p>I am not suprised that the MC4016 cost $50. They have probably been out of production for 20 years.<p>The same function in the MC7400 series is performed by the SN74160 or SN74162. These parts are very popular, and are available in several subsequent logic series, such as the 74LS160 and the 74HC160, among others.<p>These are synchronous counters, rather than ripple carry, but that is not a significant difference. When the chips are cascaded, the carry out of each chip goes to the count enable of the next chip. The carry out of the last chip is high when all of the digits in the cascaded chips are at the maximum count (either 9 or 15). To make a programmable counter, you invert the carry out of the last chip and connect it to the load input of all the chips. On the next clock after the load input goes high, the digits on the preset inputs are loaded into the counter. For example, to divide by 3 using the decade counter, you load 7 into the preset inputs. The counting sequence is then 7, 8, 9, load 7, 8, 9, load 7 , etc.<p>There are two count enable inputs. One is used to cascade the carry signals. The others can be wired together and used to gate the entire counter. If the carry out is inverted and fed to the enable inputs, it will stop the counter at its highest count. The counter will start again when a lower number is loaded in using the load and preset inputs, but will stop when the highest count is reached.<p>This approach uses a small number of parts, but requires that the inputs be specially coded. It works better in binary, where the programming inputs can simply be inverted.<p>A brute force approach is to start the count at zero, and compare the outputs to the programming digits with exclusive or gates. When they match, stop the count. This would be more practical in a programmable logic device, sometimes referred to as FPLDs. These are fairly cheap, but they are usually in surface mount packages, and you need to get the programming software and learn to use it. Some of these devices are available in the DigiKey catalog for about 4 or 5 dollars. This may be overkill for what you are doing.<p>[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: stephen ]</p>

[IRONMAN]

Damn stephen, you're good.
I think I found an equally lazy way to achieve my silly little circuit though, a couple of CMOS 4018's, they are decade DOWN counters, which means simple hook-ups of a few BCD coded switches.
However the data sheets were somewhat lacking, not explaining what the cascade pins do etc..
I assume they keep the counters from reloading the presets until all cascaded units hit zero(or after?), other wise I'll have to build extra logic to decode all outs=zero, I will purchase a few and play around with them, step them through count sequences etc(why I want to build a presetable pulser in the first place, gotta' admit it would be handy to step a circuit through any number of clock cycles from 1 to 999.) and see if I can dope out what was left out of the data sheets.
Actually going back to school, so I find myself with less free time latley, and I know, when you make a hobby into a career, you usaully ruin a good hobby!

[rshayes]

The 4018 will need some strange encoding. The division ratio is set by using different feedback arrangements for each modulus. Controlling this with BCD coded thumbwheel switches may require a fair amount of logic. Also, the minimum ratio is two, which means that none of your digits could be less than 2. Your minimum count would be 222.<p>If you can find them, you might consider the 74HC192. This is a presettable decimal up/down counter. The borrow output of the last stage would indicate the all zeroes state and could be used to interrupt the clock. The load signal could then be used to load a new count and restart the counter. Codeing should be compatible with BCD coded thumbwheel switches.<p>[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: stephen ]</p>

[IRONMAN]

You mean you cannot preset a 0001 and get them to count down to zero?
Where are you getting data for these devices? I could only find limited(very limited.) data sheets from digi-key's web site.
Do you happen to have a copy of the TTL cookbook?
mine is the 26th printing, if yours is similar, look on page 245 (fig.6-19), that's roughly what I'm looking to use with an N and only N circuit.
The problem is all my books are not only old they are early printings, which means out of date examples when specific part numbers are used( I also noticed a hell of a lot of errors in the book! fig. 3-22 for example.).
I can honestly see why microcontrollers are so popular, I just got a book on the PIC series, however have'nt even had time to start it.

[Bernius1]

I have some 4066cd chips. I know the 4016 & 4066 are both switches, but I don't know if they interchange. For decade counters, I have some (ttl?) 7490's , some with Heath #'s. I'll send one of each if it'll help. I'm planning on building a function generator with an LM566 for tri. & sq., and a quad 741 ( LM2900, or 4136 ?) in a quad for sine, using the 4066 for range select through R's & cap's, and an LM759 for audio pwr ( speaker inductance curve test ) . Unfortunately, my time is tight lately.

[rshayes]

Data sheet for the MC14018 (Motorola version of CD4018) cann be found on the ON Semiconductor site (www.onsemi.com). The data sheet for the CD74HC192 can be found on the Texas Instruments site (www.ti.com).<p>The CD4018 uses a counter based on shift registers rather than cascaded flip-flops. There are no preset inputs. The count length is changed by using different connections from the shift register outputs to the shift register input. The feedback connections have no relationship to binary coded decimal (BCD) and would be complicated to control using a BCD thumbwheel switch.<p>The CD74HC192 uses cascaded flip-flops and operates using BCD. These are up/down counters using separate inputs for count up and count down and separate signals for carry and borrow between stages. Since you only want to count down, the count up input would be held high continuously with a clock signal applied to the count down input. The borrow out from the last stage indicates that the counter has reached zero.<p>The load function is not edge triggered, so the load pulse will have to be removed before the circuit can count. This can be done by generating the load pulse with the negative edge of the clock and counting on the positive edge.<p>The counter can either be stopped when the count reaches zero, and then loaded after the next trigger, or it can be preloaded after it counts to zero and begin counting after the trigger. Take your pick, one may have simpler logic than the other.

[IRONMAN]

Greetings all;
been a little busy latley with school etc.(I aced the silly little entrance exam!)
no_vice ;
I appreciate the offer, however I need to place a large order with a couple of supply houses anyway, I'll stock up on a few chips while I'm at it.
stephen ;
I think I was half asleep last time I posted, I meant to say I was going to use the cmos 4522 NOT the 4018, I have no idea why I typed that part # in.
What do you think about that chip? It's presetable, unit cascadeable (by decades counting), and down counts. I should be able to load a number, and used in conjunction with an N and only N circuit, be able to program exactly how many out-put pulses I get(I hope
).