DOA

[spindown]

Any advice on how to deal with DOA's from the internet? Won't respond to emails. Disillusioned

[Mike]

from what company?

[jwax]

What's "DOA"? Dogs On Acid?

[Mike]

haha nope its Dead On Arrival.

[philba]

I wasn't aware that people were dying on the internet.<p>But I can see why spindown is disillusioned. he probably doesn't get satisfying answers to his questions.

[jollyrgr]

Pay with virtual credit cards especially with small or unknown companies. Or if it is a big company, you can use a normal credit card. Contest the charge with the credit card company. They will freeze the charge and will try and contact the seller to resolve the dispute. If they can't get in contact with the seller or the sellers refuse to contact the CC company back, they may let you "win" by default. The charge is removed from your account and the seller gets nothing. If they get in contact with the seller, they will start a report process to find out what is wrong and come up with a solution. <p>New stuff from a seller has a warranty. If you buy something on eBay used, you get it AS IS. Auctions eBay and PayPal are "supposed" to be able to resolve disputes. I've had a couple and eBay is not very helpful until you actually get someone that can READ. I spelled out everything in the first e-mail and they made suggestions such as "Get seller's information. Call them directly." I referred to the first e-mail and pointed out that I'd done that and got a bogus phone number. Long story short the woman I talked to was the seller's mom. He was in the service and did not have a phone per se and used his mom's phone number. Problem was resolved when he talked to his mom and she mentioned a "strange phonecall" about eBay. <p>If you've paid by cash or check, you are likely screwed. You can place a "second order" or query as someone else to prove that the guy still exist. If you get an immediate response you know the guy is avoiding you. If it is for a little bit of money, save your time. It's not worth losing sleep over a $5 item. You can bad mouth them to everyone you know and be okay. (Don't go to a site such as this board and say "Wiget Co. cashed my check then sent me pencils without any lead. They are evil, don't deal with them." This will probably get you sued. <p>A friend got screwed out of $350 on an eBay auction. She is trying to work it out right now through the proper channels. <p>(REMOVED COMMENT as it is too nasty to publish this in an open forum. Private message me if you want a "revenge" tactic.)<p>If the item is something under warranty, go to the manufacturer for help. They should be willing to help out in any case.<p>[ June 21, 2005: Message edited by: Jolly Roger ]</p>

[sofaspud]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>(Don't go to a site such as this board and say "Wiget Co. cashed my check then sent me pencils without any lead. They are evil, don't deal with them." This will probably get you sued.<hr></blockquote><p>If your statement is true a lawsuit is unlikely, and losing is even more unlikely.

[philba]

Yes, just stick to the facts - "I bought X from Y. Y did not send it to me. X does not work as advertised." and so on. Facts are not libel. Opinions can be and lies definitely are. <p>I've been cheated a couple of times and I am not at all shy about telling my story. The truth is pretty powerful. Just tell it like it is.<p>But of course, this is all just guess work since the OP said basically nothing.

[sofaspud]

Basically nothing is right.
Obvious channels other than a credit card company are things like small claims court or possibly a report of mail fraud to the Postmaster General. File with the Better Business Bureau and its internet equivalents.
It's hard to give an answer when you don't really know the question. One that always fits is caveat emptor.

[Mike]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jolly Roger:
(Don't go to a site such as this board and say "Wiget Co. cashed my check then sent me pencils without any lead. They are evil, don't deal with them." This will probably get you sued. <hr></blockquote><p>How could you get sued for saying that a company is bad and warning people not to deal with them?

[philba]

It's not a hard concept, really. Stick to the facts. If you say "X company cheats people", that's not a fact, it is your interpretation of facts. It is likely to be considered libel by a court. If you said "I ordered Y from X and did not get what I wanted". That's a fact and no court will find as libel. You could *probably* get away with saying "I believe X cheated me" but that is presupposing intent when you have no basis to know intent. Courts deal with facts for the most part and the more factual you are, the safer you are. Plus, most people will be predisposed to believe you if you are factual.

[jollyrgr]

How can I say that you'd get sued for telling the truth? Advice from both my parents lawyer and my lawyer. When my parents had a house built the lawn contractor put in bad sod. It rotted within a couple weeks of getting installed. My mom and dad wanted to put a sign in the front yard that stated "HOUSE BY ?????? LAWN SERVICE BY ??? LANDSCAPER". They consulted their lawyer. The lawyer said that under no circumstances could we do that as both the builder and landscaper could sue. Even it if it was the truth and you said NOTHING about the lawn, just let people make their own opinion by identifying the contractor, you could still be guilty of libel. <p>Years later I bought my house. While the builder was fairly decent there were problems as could be expected. The sign for the entire subdivision/development was (at least part of it) in my yard. I joked with my lawyer about its position. I said something about putting a URL sign under their sign (again, literally in the corner of my yard on my property) showing a web site of the problems I was having, should they not fix them. My lawyer told me to call her instead as putting up such a sign showing a web site could get me a lot of trouble should someone see it and decide not to buy because of it.<p>Now maybe both lawyers were lying and wanted some sort of fee. But I don't want to take the chance. <p>A friend was in business classes in college. One thing they discussed was marketing. If you get a repeat customer and treat them nicely, you've one a loyal customer. Get that customer PO'd at you one time and not only do you lose them the customer tells everyone about his bad experience. Someone hearing a bad thing about a company will remember that story. It takes about ten good comments then to correct that one negative comment.

[sofaspud]

In the lawn example, you could get in legal trouble because the sign implies that the contractor did the poor job intentionally. Perhaps weather conditions caused the rot. Perhaps your parents overwatered the lawn. Perhaps the landscaper was unaware that the sod was bad and wasn't notified and given an opportunity to correct it.
In the second example, your lawyer was correct. You should exhaust all reasonable means before resorting to "playing dirty." This was a simple case of property boundaries and I'd bet a resolution was found.

[Mike]

How I see it is we are protected by the freedom of speech.<p>If somebody does a crappy job, since when can't you warn people to stay away from that company. If this wasn't legal, companies could do crappy work and get away with it because it would be illegal to tell anybody how they do not do good work.<p>Why in the world is this illegal? I can't believe that if I don't like a company, either their work or how they treat the customer, I can't legally express my bad experience with them. That can't be illegal! It just can't!!!!<p>[ June 22, 2005: Message edited by: Mike ]</p>

[philba]

its not illegal - its about what you can be successfully sued over. that's a private matter, not one of law.<p>Think about it from the other perspective - if some one is out there lying about something you did or saying that you are a cheat or a crook or ... Wouldn't you want to be able to take them to court and make them pay for their lies?<p>Like I said, if you tell the truth with just the facts, you have nothing to fear.<p>Note that most lawyers are paid to tell you to be afraid of your own shadow - they will advise you to hide in the dark and never interact with another soul.