Nope, no more political stuff . I'm trying to figure out the correct fuse size for an amplifier I just finished. After having a nice fireworks display last week when some tantalums blew up (last time I use those!), I decided I need a fuse before something expensive blows up - like my speakers or the amp itself.
The amplifier uses 4 LM3886 chips running in parallel mode. This means I get:
50WPC @ 8-ohm
68WPC @ 4-ohm
120WPC @ 2-ohm
So, if I was running 2-ohm speakers, I'd have a power output of 240 Watts.
Am I correct in thinking that 240W / 120VAC = 2A fuse? Or am I missing something here?
Choosing a fuse size
Re: Choosing a fuse size
You could maybe get by with a smaller fuse than that one, at least for testing since average power is usually much less than the RMS rating. Maybe a one amp would work so long as the filter capacitors' charging does not blow it.
Re: Choosing a fuse size
In the ideal world- yes. Depending on the class of operation, your efficiency will vary.
If you can measure the AC amps during full output conditions, guess the fuse size at 1.2-1.5 times that. Probably slow blow for your audio application.
A wild guess would be 5 to 7.5 amp.
If you can measure the AC amps during full output conditions, guess the fuse size at 1.2-1.5 times that. Probably slow blow for your audio application.
A wild guess would be 5 to 7.5 amp.
WA2RBA
Re: Choosing a fuse size
So does your amp put 120vac to the speakers? The amps I've played with used something between 24 and 48v power supplies.
48vac @ 240w = 5A
24vac @ 240w = 10A
120vac / 2ohm = 60A = 7,200 watts (which doesn't look right to me) but
24vac / 2ohm = 12A = 288 watts
Alas, I no longer own anything remotely resembling hi-fi stereo equipment so cannot even check my current setup for details.
48vac @ 240w = 5A
24vac @ 240w = 10A
120vac / 2ohm = 60A = 7,200 watts (which doesn't look right to me) but
24vac / 2ohm = 12A = 288 watts
Alas, I no longer own anything remotely resembling hi-fi stereo equipment so cannot even check my current setup for details.
Re: Choosing a fuse size
Oh wait, once it's stepped up/down the current will change. Sorry, forgot my elementary stuff.
12A @24vac = 2.4A @120vac.
12A @24vac = 2.4A @120vac.
Re: Choosing a fuse size
matt, check out the littlefuse site (littlefuse.com). They have a wealth of literature about fuses and circuit protection in general. what you find is that selecting a fuse isn't as simple as you would think. for example, the difference between fast and slow blow becomes important when protecting components.
good luck.
good luck.
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Re: Choosing a fuse size
Mike
First of all, what circuit do you want to fuse? speaker lines, power amps, power supply? If you are handling that kind of power, I would do a lot of individual fusing. Power transformer (s) input,Each channel power amp and speaker lines too. One big fuse for the whole shebang just doesn't cover enough bases as it could allow an overload for one section and still not blow. When fusing power amps or supplys, you have to calculate actual VA from these sources and their efficiency and then some for a little headroom to prevent nuisance trippings. Since maximum music power is rarely a steady sinewave but rather breif periods of short peak power you could probably downsize your fuses accordingly. Unless your pumping heavy metal rock through it which is likely to over drive your amplifier frequently you could keep this in mind.( but then heavy metal isnt really music, rather just constant loud noise).
First of all, what circuit do you want to fuse? speaker lines, power amps, power supply? If you are handling that kind of power, I would do a lot of individual fusing. Power transformer (s) input,Each channel power amp and speaker lines too. One big fuse for the whole shebang just doesn't cover enough bases as it could allow an overload for one section and still not blow. When fusing power amps or supplys, you have to calculate actual VA from these sources and their efficiency and then some for a little headroom to prevent nuisance trippings. Since maximum music power is rarely a steady sinewave but rather breif periods of short peak power you could probably downsize your fuses accordingly. Unless your pumping heavy metal rock through it which is likely to over drive your amplifier frequently you could keep this in mind.( but then heavy metal isnt really music, rather just constant loud noise).
Re: Choosing a fuse size
Mike, I forgot about the approximate 50% and max 70% efficiency of class AB amplifiers. I used to use multiple fuses also, one for each power supply rail, one for each speaker, and one for the power line input.
Re: Choosing a fuse size
Sir Michael
With your past exhibited proclivity towards packaged power amps, I was figuring that to be your amps sole device of choice.
Now as far as the exploding of tantalum foil electrolytic caps, that tends to be suggestive of improper polarization in their installation…or a possible bipolar power mode operation of the unit in the designed circuit….or over voltage operation of those devices. With their inherent very low ESR, thin oxide dielectrics and active capacitance surface area they are much less forgiving than common electrolytics.
I know for a fact that some manufacturer’s modes of their polarity marking can prove somewhat small and cryptic. I am frequently just pulling
out my Triplett 630NA VOM set in its 10K ohms range, along with also previously knowing the meter leads true voltage polarity. It is then easy to take a reading and watch the caps initial fast charge up surge accumulate and then gradually drop back ever so closer to zero and then discharge the cap (now, that was one healthy high current spark from such a low capacitance unit, wasn't it !) and reverse the leads to recharge up again and see the same initial surge but this time with the meter hanging up and not doing that previous full drop as was experienced when the caps polarity and applied charge are in accordance.
Also, when you need tantalum foil voltage ratings in excess of 35VDC, you are getting into rare territory.
I tend to only see that availability being offered in Mil Spec or NASA qualified devices and in the ultra sealed / ultra reliable wet tantalum slug type of construction .(10-25 years longevity)
Considering those amps to be adequately heatsinked for their cooling, I would have the highest respect of those 3886’s internal design in proper self protection via their continual sampling loops of their operating thermal and power characteristics, as well as detection of any DC offset voltage showing up on their speaker output lines. As far as you pumping that continuous RMS power level into a set of speakers, I don’t think that your ears, nerves or speakers ( Sniff…sniff…do I detect the acrid odor of Phenol wafting from those speaker cone spider bobbins ?) could tolerate it.
Considering your two 3886 power amp blocks and their power limiting specs on that described system, my choice of fusing, being a 3A standard line fuse, unless your raw DC power supply has an inordinate high value of filtering capacitance being utilized, where I would shift towards a slow blow version, from the aspect of initial turn on surge.
73's de Edd
[email protected] .........(Interstellar~~~~Warp~~~Speed)
[email protected].........(Firewalled*Spam*Cookies*Crumbs)
Alternatively speaking……. I wonder, if young Chinese piano players have to learn to play "Knife and Fork".
With your past exhibited proclivity towards packaged power amps, I was figuring that to be your amps sole device of choice.
Now as far as the exploding of tantalum foil electrolytic caps, that tends to be suggestive of improper polarization in their installation…or a possible bipolar power mode operation of the unit in the designed circuit….or over voltage operation of those devices. With their inherent very low ESR, thin oxide dielectrics and active capacitance surface area they are much less forgiving than common electrolytics.
I know for a fact that some manufacturer’s modes of their polarity marking can prove somewhat small and cryptic. I am frequently just pulling
out my Triplett 630NA VOM set in its 10K ohms range, along with also previously knowing the meter leads true voltage polarity. It is then easy to take a reading and watch the caps initial fast charge up surge accumulate and then gradually drop back ever so closer to zero and then discharge the cap (now, that was one healthy high current spark from such a low capacitance unit, wasn't it !) and reverse the leads to recharge up again and see the same initial surge but this time with the meter hanging up and not doing that previous full drop as was experienced when the caps polarity and applied charge are in accordance.
Also, when you need tantalum foil voltage ratings in excess of 35VDC, you are getting into rare territory.
I tend to only see that availability being offered in Mil Spec or NASA qualified devices and in the ultra sealed / ultra reliable wet tantalum slug type of construction .(10-25 years longevity)
Considering those amps to be adequately heatsinked for their cooling, I would have the highest respect of those 3886’s internal design in proper self protection via their continual sampling loops of their operating thermal and power characteristics, as well as detection of any DC offset voltage showing up on their speaker output lines. As far as you pumping that continuous RMS power level into a set of speakers, I don’t think that your ears, nerves or speakers ( Sniff…sniff…do I detect the acrid odor of Phenol wafting from those speaker cone spider bobbins ?) could tolerate it.
Considering your two 3886 power amp blocks and their power limiting specs on that described system, my choice of fusing, being a 3A standard line fuse, unless your raw DC power supply has an inordinate high value of filtering capacitance being utilized, where I would shift towards a slow blow version, from the aspect of initial turn on surge.
73's de Edd
[email protected] .........(Interstellar~~~~Warp~~~Speed)
[email protected].........(Firewalled*Spam*Cookies*Crumbs)
Alternatively speaking……. I wonder, if young Chinese piano players have to learn to play "Knife and Fork".
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