DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

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Tommy volts
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DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Tommy volts » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:54 am

Hi,<p>I've noticed that the expression "DIY" is starting to appear more and more on recent posts. <p>I looked it up on wikipedia where I learned that the expression is about the DIY (do it yourself) movement in the UK. Here are some excerpts from wikipedia:<p>"The DIY ethic is loosely tied to punk and various anticonsumerist movements….."<p>"The DIY punk ethic can also extend to how any group or individual applies DIY political stances to daily life…"<p>"DIY Culture became something of a recognised movement in the 1990’s in the UK where the protest (the direct action) and party (the festival) converged…."<p>
I wonder if that is what the forum members are expressing when using the term DIY?

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philba
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by philba » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:09 am

that wikipedia entry wasn't done by any americans, I think. frankly, someone is blowing up a simple concept. Punk movement??? B*llSh*t<p>DIY has been around for at least 40 years in the US (from my memories) but probably a lot longer than that. It's an expression of self reliance and cost saving. I don't think it can be called an ethic - more like a way to get more but spend less. I think it has it's roots in the Depression but probably goes back a lot farther than that. An awful lot of americans (mostly guys) take pride in their ability to build or do stuff. DIY can be applied to painting your own house instead of hiring some one to do it for you. Or installing kitchen cabinets. Fixing your car. Or designing this or creating that... <p>I doubt it's limited to americans, too.<p>Next thing you know, the wikipedia entry for breathing will call it a "movement expressing strong support for living". sheesh

Tommy volts
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Tommy volts » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:26 am

Philba,<p>Thank you for clearing that up! I like using wikipedia, it is free, but as you have pointed out so well, some of the entries could be B*llSh*t. I agree with your assessment.

Newz2000
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Newz2000 » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:47 am

Be very careful about trusting Wiki-pedia. I may have to blog about this because I know some of my family members put a lot of trust in it.<p>Let me just point out two reasons why you need to be careful with Wiki-pedia:
  • Anyone can submit to it. This is good and bad. It's easy to sound authoritative on the Internet and it's possible for someone who *thinks* they have a good understanding of a matter to post content. The comunal nature of wikipedia increases the chance that bad info will be spotted and corrected, but who knows how long it will take
  • One word - 1984. We currently live in a revisionsit society and it is very easy to erase records if our most authoritative sources are all electronic. I know this sounds Orwellian (is that correct?) and I'm not that paranoid, but kids today learn a lot different stuff than I did.
<p>\me steps off soap box.

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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Newz2000 » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:00 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tommy volts:
Hi,<p>I've noticed that the expression "DIY" is starting to appear more and more on recent posts. <p>I looked it up on wikipedia where I learned that the expression is about the DIY (do it yourself) movement in the UK. Here are some excerpts from wikipedia:<p>"The DIY ethic is loosely tied to punk and various anticonsumerist movements….."<hr></blockquote><p>By the way, there is more than one entry for DIY on wikipedia. You picked the "punk" version. The more general overview of DIY is found here and is much more in line with what you would expect.

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Chris Smith
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Chris Smith » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:03 pm

Matt, the perfect example of revision has been around many years, its called the “Abridged Dictionary”. <p>Most Americans use it, and “get it wrong”. <p>They think it is a "literal" book? <p>It sucks if you are more literal than that.<p> I prefer to use an exact word to convey a exact meaning, even if its origin is Old English, Yiddish, or Sanscrit, while the abridged dictionary would have you to believe that many words are simply not what they mean.

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jollyrgr
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by jollyrgr » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:38 pm

I agree with Chris on this one; here are some other examples. <p>The British/UK call the number "1,000,000,000" (10^9) One thousand million, Americans call it one Billion. The number "1,000,000,000,000" (10^12) is One Billion to the British but is One Trillion to Americans. The British refer to the 10^12 number as a "Million Million" BI(llion) as "bi" for two "millions".<p>Or at least this was something I was told in school many years ago as a reason to use Scientific notation in writing engineering documentation. Writing "One Billion" (or similar "billion" denomination) and having a British English person reading it as opposed to an American English person reading it would be two different terms. Can anyone in the UK confirm or deny this? How about anyone in New Zeland and Australia?<p>(NOTE: Dictionaries confirm this but I don't know how true in "common" use it really is.)<p>When watching the BBC or CBC the "English" is different. For instance a guy falls down a flight of stairs and gets hurt. <p>BBC or CBC reporter: "The 29 year old man was injured after falling down a flight of stairs. Medical crews took him to hospital where he was listed in fair condition"

American reporter: "The 29 year old man was injured after falling down a flight of stairs. Medical crews took him to the hospital where he was listed in fair condition"<p>This would always upset my brothers until I pointed out this descrepancy in American English.<p>An American or British reporter would state somthing like:<p>"The shoplifter was caught and was taken to jail where he remains until he can post bail."<p>Note that in American English we put the word THE before some place nouns but not others.<p>In any case DIY in AMERICAN culture means Do It Yourself. In other words don't hire a contractor to put a new dishwasher in your kitchen, the steps are easy and you can Do It Yourself. <p>I also was told many years ago that the thumb out for a ride that is popular in "hitchhiking" in both British and American hand jestures is equivalent to "the bird" in Israel. (Something about "width" instead of "length", so I was told.) <p>
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Chris Smith
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Chris Smith » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:13 pm

The British and American billionaire, are quite different. Id rather be a British Billionaire, and Im sure there are none in the world as we speak. Not even Bill Gates is 1/10 of the way there.

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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Enzo » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:52 pm

Do It Yourself has been a marketing mantra around hardware stores, lumber yards, and now home centers, for at least the last fifty years I can directly report. It might have been a more popular term in the 1950s and 1960s than it is now, but it still carries the same meaning. You would see Do It Yourself kits for most any household repair. It was so prevalent that jokes were made, like a do it yourself brain surgery kit. Coyote and roadrunner cartoons had do it your self kits for this and that when coyote was trying to catch roadrunner. Of course they aer Acme kits and never worked so well, but that is another matter.<p>If the punk culture in the UK has co-opted the word for some sub meaning, that will pass like all other slang

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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by John Brown » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:50 am

Actually the British and the American billion are one and the same thing.
We (the British) adopted the American version many years ago to save confusion.
Obviously it didn't work, since so many people still believe that the British billion is 10E12.
Incidentally, can you imagine America doing such a thing? Like acknowledging that NTSC sucks and PAL is way superior? Or deciding to adopt a pre-existing tried and tested system like COFDM digital terrestrial television, even though it wasn't devised by Americans?
I don't think so.

ecerfoglio
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by ecerfoglio » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:08 am

In spanish one "billón" is 10E12. (one american Trillon)<p>Of course, it was impossible to translate any text that included the world billion. :roll: :roll:
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philba
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by philba » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:28 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by John Brown:
Actually the British and the American billion are one and the same thing.
We (the British) adopted the American version many years ago to save confusion.
Obviously it didn't work, since so many people still believe that the British billion is 10E12.
Incidentally, can you imagine America doing such a thing? Like acknowledging that NTSC sucks and PAL is way superior? Or deciding to adopt a pre-existing tried and tested system like COFDM digital terrestrial television, even though it wasn't devised by Americans?
I don't think so.
<hr></blockquote><p>John, we americans are ALWAYs borrowing from other cultures. Sure there has always been a bit of an isolationist streak but if you look at many things considered "American" you will find a foriegn root. Like Pizza (there are few truely American restaurants around - italian, indian, chinese, mexican, thai, japanese, ...) and the term Euro gets tacked on to many things to make them seem better (ok, lol, except for eurotrash but even that is some how exotic). It seems like half the words in the language are from somewhere else. Of course you can find counter examples but the broad reality is adoptive, not exclusionary. The stereotype of the ignorant American that avoids anything non-american is a myth.

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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by John Brown » Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:28 am

Philba, my post was slightly tongue in cheek, but the bit about billions is true. I like americans, I have an american wife, from Washington State, like you!

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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by Gorgon » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:50 am

Hi,
Just to make the info complete, here is the definition on the 'long' and 'short scale' of big numbers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales

I think scientific notation is the solution for a forum of many nations, like this.

TOK ;)
Gorgon the Caretaker - Character in a childrens TV-show from 1968. ;)

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philba
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Re: DIY Punk Ethic and Culture

Post by philba » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:38 am

Originally posted by John Brown:
Philba, my post was slightly tongue in cheek, but the bit about billions is true. I like americans, I have an american wife, from Washington State, like you!
Sorry if I was a bit defensive - it seems like people think we americans are responsible for all the ills of the world.

By the way, do you know what NTSC stands for? Never Twice the Same Color. Too bad the early adoptors get stuck with the worst technology...

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