whitfield pellet stove

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philba
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by philba » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:01 pm

wow, no numbers at all??? that's very odd...

patcmontgomery
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by patcmontgomery » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:04 am

Yes, weird indeed. The engineer told me they special made for Whitfield. It drives me crazy that I can't even find a schematic for them.

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Edd
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by Edd » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:58 am

;) ;)<p>[ January 02, 2005: Message edited by: Edd Whatley ]</p>

patrick51870
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by patrick51870 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:49 am

I would donate to Wayne, however both U4 & u5 are now bad on mine. Due to poor troubleshooting! I shorted the good one to 110 accidental! These "IC's" U4 & U5 are not of a common breed. It is a ZIP style package more than anything. It has 8 normal pin size legs with 2 larger for a total of 10 leads. The larger I belive are an SCR of some sort that control the switching of these blower motors. I assume by the high failure rate of these they were underdesigned initially and unable to handle the high current/heat load. Hence the reason they now have a totally new and differently designed control board. I will take pictures of of the IC removed and post them. I also plan to cut one open just for fun...

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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by bigtowers » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:23 pm

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by wayne:
Whitfield pellet stove this is a pellet stove like the one I need to repair... the electronics come into play by taking the signal from the heat sensor to control the auger for the pellets to drop into the burn pit, the electronics control the fans, both the burn fan and the exhaust fan...<hr></blockquote>I was searching for another controller for my Whitfield Advantage II stove and found this message thread. Both my combustion and convection fans intermittently stop, with the auger continuing to dump pellets into the burn chamber.<p>The controllers were manufactured by SSAC, who is in the business of producing cheap solid state OEM timers and controllers. I'm familiar with them, since AC power plant controllers I had at one place where I worked, once were also manufactured by SSAC...and they didn't work properly, either.<p>You can forget about getting a schematic for the Whitfield controller, since SSAC shaves off component markings and pots everything they can to prevent us from doing exactly what you want to do.<p>The local dealer who installed the pellet stove (I bought it with the house a few years ago) has been somewhat uncooperative to resolve this particular issue. I can't even get him to tell me how much a new controller costs so I can order it and pay him for it.<p>What appears to be happening here is that suddenly the fans abruptly stop, with what appears to be a DC braking voltage applied, while the auger motor continues to turn. That looks like one or more triac switches failing for half the 60 cycle power wave form, leaving an imperfect DC voltage applied to the AC motors (they hum when this happens). There's no other place in the stove where DC voltage can be applied. If SSAC used triac in their controllers, it means they may have used cheap ones which are now failing at high-temperature, then returning back to "normal" when the stove cools down.

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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by gerty » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:34 pm

Wayne, if I'm not missing something all you need is some kind of thermostat to turn the fan on?
Wouldn't it be easier to use something like a
Thermodisc for this. This way it would be totally independant of the orignal circuit board. Sounds like even if you did find a replacement part, it wouldn't last.
Just my 2 cents worth :) <p>edit: Found one in Digikey pn#317-1094-nd.
It's rated at 15a @120v normally open, closes at 50 degrees c (they have others) It could be mounted near the existing sensors. Looks like its about 1.5" by1.5" $9.00<p>[ February 01, 2005: Message edited by: gerty ]<p>[ February 01, 2005: Message edited by: gerty ]</p>

bigtowers
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by bigtowers » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:46 pm

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by wayne:
Whitfield pellet stove this is a pellet stove like the one I need to repair... the electronics come into play by taking the signal from the heat sensor to control the auger for the pellets to drop into the burn pit, the electronics control the fans, both the burn fan and the exhaust fan..., the electronics control the speed at which the pellets drop and the burn fan runs in order to adjust the BTU of the stove.. it also has a sensor to turn the stove off if either of the fans get plugged, using a vacuum switch... plus a few other little things that it does..
by pressing the start button, adjusting the speed of the pellet drop (1 through 5, 5 being the hottest, and normal start up is at 3), placing a couple of pellets in the burn pit along with some lighter chips (wax coated shavings), the fan will come on making the chips burn hot enough to ignite the pellets and by then the auger is dropping them into the pit.. and wa-la.. the heat fromt the fire goes up and heats the pipes that have the exhaust fan blowing through them, that blows HOT air into the room.. at any rate, my exhaust fan quit, because of something on that board (tested the fan direct hookup and its fine).. I have to rebuild the tranny on the auger motor, probably just needs some good hi-temp grease.. and if I can repair the board, then I'll use this stove in my garage... at $2200 a pop, I just can't see tossing it in the scrap metal bin..
<hr></blockquote><p>A friend suggested bypassing the controller entirely to keep the fans running. I just checked the simple schematic that shows how the components are connected together, and I think that might work.<p>If your combustion (exhaust) fan and the low-limit switch is ok, then you probably just popped a triac on the controller, so bypassing the controller might work for you, too.<p>I was more concerned about the auger motor, which has the high-limit and pressure switch in series with the auger motor, so it still has some safety features outside of the controller to protect it.

bigtowers
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by bigtowers » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:03 pm

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Alan:
...The local dealer who installed the pellet stove (I bought it with the house a few years ago) has been somewhat uncooperative to resolve this particular issue. I can't even get him to tell me how much a new controller costs so I can order it and pay him for it.<hr></blockquote><p>Correction, I called them again today (Hearth & Home, in Ledgewood, NJ) and they quoted me a price of $382. Apparently these incompetent SOB's are in gouge mode, since this is the only season when their services are in demand. The last time I had them out here (after the previous owner had them on a maintenance contract), all they could tell me what that I was running the stove too hot (damper open too wide). And that was with the auger on the #3 setting.<p>The going price (with shipping) is about $275, so I ordered it from another dealer nearby. And now I know another dealer.

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frhrwa
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by frhrwa » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:20 am

I think Pat mentioned finding them available on EBAY.. but expensive also.. his idea of the other manufacture control board is cheaper and works so far.. also the idea from Gerty using a temp sensor would work.. I've been traveling and right at present I'm in SF, so haven't had time to work on my stove.. will get back to it this summer..
JESUS”…… don’t leave EARTH without HIM!

bigtowers
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by bigtowers » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:23 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Edd Whatley:
…I might expect them to be Euro style insulated terminal blocks with set screws.
Soooo fire up your ohmmmmeter and check for continuity from “5-black” wire at the PCB connector to the terminal of the lo limit switch on the motor side of the device.
Should that circuit be complete that would also let us know that there are no one shot thermal fuses in that loop that have opened.
That would then suggest the need for opening up the controller and inspecting that PCB , specifically at that “5-black” termination and tracking the trace and see if it doesn’t end up parked at a TO-220 encased triac that is used to switch the hot AC line thru it to the CONVection motor.
ZUJ’ing for further info from your inspection.
<hr></blockquote>
I opened my controller, after working on my stove today, and that’s EXACTLY what I found. #5 lands at the second triac from the left (with the transformer on the left and the triacs in the back facing you). The first triac controls the combustion fan. There are three triacs on the board, BTA10-400C, with TO220 cases. Mouser Electronics stocks them as part no. 511-BTA06-400C, sells for 80 cents/each.<p>This controller board actually has part numbers, which is surprising for SSAC products, however there’s one IC with a custom label on top of a daughterboard. That might be the timer for the auger motor.<p>I also found that there are four test points available through the front panel, if you pop out the four black caps from the back of the case. That will save me having to run test leads to put my scope on the blower power leads to document the triac high temperature trigger failure issue.

frankj
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Re: whitfield pellet stove

Post by frankj » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:50 pm

Hi all,

A friend of mine is trying to repair a Whitfield Advantage II control board (the one with the analog controls, not the newer model) and we've been looking for schematics/diagrams of that thing.

By looking at your thread, I wonder if any of you guys was successful at finding a schematic and/or more information around it (so far, it doesn't even look like it's using standard parts... :???: ).

Thanks in advance!

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Edd
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Post by Edd » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:52 pm

.

Whutttt ? …. This long since hearing about the infamous pellet stove.

I think that when you refer to new Sugardaddy….Lennox…they would rather not talk about it
Just want your personal info instead…..with no linking to tech info.
But there is still a bit of active info linked to this site.

http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/replac ... antage.htm

http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/DigwireLarge.gif

Might be of some help in confirming the specific sections malfunction within the timer
since it gives the wiring breakout and interconnect of the 6 pin connector.

73's de Edd
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Rock 'n Ice
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Post by Rock 'n Ice » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:16 pm

Hi, guys

I hope some of you who contributed to this thread over a year ago are still around. I don't want to be a distraction from your more relevant topics, but my Whitfield stove succumbed to the same convection fan problem as in this thread. Don't worry, I've read all the other Whitfield posts here and I'll keep this thread about electronics and not combustion problems. My hat's off to ya though, trying to help out those other stove owners. For sure, there's more informed help over at Hearth.com, where I usually post this kind of question, but the guys over there know more about chainsaws than electronics.

I followed Edd's suggestion that it might the triacs on the control board and replaced them on my board, but alas, it was not to be. Yes, I'm positive it is the control board because I have the fan patched into different terminals on the stove and blowing full time on high right now.

But, I'm wondering if anybody on this forum would be willing to help me solve this riddle. Running the fan constantly on high isn't a good long term solution. If my problem is indeed caused by the same IC failure as the other owner, then I guess my workaround becomes permanent unless I can find a used stove or board cheap. However, I think my board is older than his because mine does not have any component IDs on it, no daughter board, no custom marked ICs that I can tell, and I think only two triacs.

I'm familiar with basic board level electronics, helped my step father build Heathkit projects as a kid, and am trained in printed circuit board design, although I didn't put that education to work in the industry. I can provide all the information you may need, including digital photos to help diagnose the failed component, and I can perform VOM measurements for you. I'm just not sure where to go with the diagnostics at this point without a schematic. I tried to visually trace the fan circuit from the connector through the board, but it runs into ICs before long. I had hoped that the blower control circuit was a relatively simple, analog design, but I guess not.

By the way, Whitfield pellet stoves really are very good quality pellet stoves. Mines 17 years old and runs great other than this convection fan problem. You guys were just unfortunate enough to attract a few desperate Whitfield orphans after Lennox killed the brand. But that's somewhat of a testament to the huge owner base and the longevity of these stoves.

Anyway, hope to hear from one of you troubleshooting wizards who likes a challenge!

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frhrwa
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Post by frhrwa » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:24 am

wow.. see what I started almost 4 years ago.. anyway, finally gave my whitfield to my BIL and bought me a new pellet stove.. in the meantime, he bought a digital control unit and replaced the old analog unit.. it works great.. I can get that info if you would rather do a change out rather than fight with component level guess work.. wayne

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Post by Rock 'n Ice » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:27 am

It couldn't hurt to have another option, so sure! Did he get the newer Whitfield touchpad controller or some other brand? I can't imagine any other brand being plug compatible. Besides, it might help out other readers of this thread.

Composing my last post challenged me more to trace down the problem. I guess I was just getting discouraged and a little lazy. I found pinouts for some of the ICs on the web last night, so I'll probably try to reverse engineer the convection fan circuit with or without the help of anybody from here. It's tedious more than anything, like putting together a jig saw puzzle and being as busy as I am with other things, was looking for the quickest fix. Oh, well.

For what it's worth, I live on Peone Prairie just a few miles away from you. Talk about a small world! What's your favorite local pellet source? I just bought a ton of Lignetic for $200 from Ace, but it sounds like Big R has the same deal and they would be closer.

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