track bouncing

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Isenbergdoug
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track bouncing

Post by Isenbergdoug » Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:22 am

I have a Tascam 4-track recorder that I would like to bounce tracks on. This basically involves connecting the RCA outputs (used for mixing down) into the 1/4" mono input jacks. My problem is that a pure connection without any circuitry doesn't have enough volume when recorded, and if I increase the volume via the control, I end up with high pitched screaming. I have the impedances and voltages for this device,<p>Line out (RCA)
output impedance 1,000 ohms
Nominal load impedance 10,000 ohms
Minimum load impedance 2,000 ohms
Nominal input level 3mV
Minimum input level 1mV
Maximum input level 2.0V<p>Mic/line (1/4" mono)
Source impedance 10,000 ohms
Input impedance 50,000 ohms
Nominal output level 0.3V<p>Unfortunatly, my AC circuits class which I just finished up didn't to much on impedance matching other than the maximum power transfer and Thevenin's part, so if that is my problem, could someone shed some light on doing this, or whatever it would take to get a good signal re-recorded on another track.<p>Thanks
Douglas Isenberg

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Externet
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Re: track bouncing

Post by Externet » Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:49 am

Hello Douglas.
Something is not making sense in your specifications list, showing on the line out "input levels".
Does your recorder has FOUR recording/play selector switches to select each track mode; and 4 rca inputs, 4 rca outputs, 4 VU meters, 4 recording level controls ?
If not, you may have a stereo only machine, being two tracks each direction only.
What model is it? I may search for it to learn what it exactly is.<p>Miguel
Audio Recording Engineer
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Isenbergdoug
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Re: track bouncing

Post by Isenbergdoug » Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:00 pm

It's a Tascam porta03mkII. Yes, it has a switch for selecting the track to record on, and the inputs for instruments or mics are the 1/4 mono plugs, of which there is two...two inputs and each input can be selected to go any of 4 tracks. The output used for mixing down the 4 track tape to a stereo tape are the left and right RCA type ouputs. They, as you probably know, go to another tape deck when mixing, but I guess to clarify this, I wanted to send the output of say tracks 1 and 2 and mix them on to track 3, where upon I will be free to record over tracks 1 and 2 because I have them on 3. <p>I see it now, I copied it wrong... here it is
Mic/Line (1/4" mono)
Source impedance 10,000 ohms
Input impedance 50,000 ohms
Nominal input level 3mV
Minimum input level 1mV
Maximum input level 2.0V<p>Line out (RCA)
output impedance 1,000 ohms
nominal load impedance 10,000 ohms
minimum load impedance 2,000 ohms
Nominal output level 0.3V<p>Sorry about the mistake, this will hopefully give help out. <p>Thanks
Douglas Isenberg

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Externet
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Re: track bouncing

Post by Externet » Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:08 pm

Hi Douglas.
Nothing conclusive so far, as this site http://www.tascam.com/pdf/Porta_02_manual.pdf
does not show your exact model manual.
I went trough the ...02 manual, (which is not the same as yours) and the ...02 model does not allow track bouncing, and seems the ...02 model is to be used as a intermediate step to mix down into a next stage mastering or DAT recorder machine.<p>The inputs and outputs specifications do not tell anything out of the norm to be concerned about.<p>Do this test: plug a headphone to listen to track 1 play WHILE recording into track 2, 3 or 4. If you can hear a pre-recorded track while recording into another, you may be able to trick bounce.<p>Miguel
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Isenbergdoug
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Re: track bouncing

Post by Isenbergdoug » Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:44 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Externet:
<p>Do this test: plug a headphone to listen to track 1 play WHILE recording into track 2, 3 or 4. If you can hear a pre-recorded track while recording into another, you may be able to trick bounce.<p>Miguel<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, that works. And that is kind of what I was trying to do. When a track is being recorded, you can here what has already been recorded on another track. The sound being recorded and the sounds that have been recorded are present at both the head phones and the the RCA output. To track bounce, I was going to make an external connection from the RCA output to the instrument input, but when I do, I get a very weak signal and I end up losing lots of volume on the recording, which tends to be a problem because there is only so much volume you can give it, and when you lose half of it on a single track bounce, then it tends not to be worth doing it.
Any way, I have the manual for this machine, and it mentions nothing about bouncing tracks. I suppose I could always mix tracks down on a tape deck, then use that tape as a new recording tape, each time I would gain two extra tracts. But it would be so much easier just to connect a cable and adapter to from the output to the input. And press record....<p>Douglas Isenberg

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Re: track bouncing

Post by Externet » Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:21 am

Hello Douglas.
Well, let's see if I understand. When you listen to playback on track 1, and you feed external audio to record on track 2, a mixture of the play and the record audio gets to the ¿MONO? headphone.
I believe there may be a switch somewhere to make the 1/4" input jack mono when there is only one source plug being fed; that switch may be in the unused input jack itself, routing the input to record two channels from a single jack.
Try plugging a second unwired plug to the other input jack as an attempt to prevent the signal double-routing.
I suspect the input signal on high impedance channel 2 is paralleled with the 1000 ohms impedance output signal playing channel 1, loading it too much and decreasing its level. I guess this because you can listen to both input and output signals on the headphone.
Interesting task...I would say the portable machines do not support editing functions... The manual ...02 I read does mention the use of a second mastering recorder as a typical configuration to mix down... Is there a schematic or signal route block diagram in your manual ?
Miguel
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Isenbergdoug
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Re: track bouncing

Post by Isenbergdoug » Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:39 am

Yes, you have it, when I record on a track, I hear what it already recorded on another track, and what is being recorded, on the headphones (1/4" stereo) and the same signal is seen at the RCA mixdown outputs of which I listed the specs.
Yeah, I'm almost positive that what I am trying to do is not supported on this machine, but that's not going to keep me from trying!<p>Thanks,
Douglas Isenberg

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