Page 1 of 2

### Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 1:57 pm
In this example an electricity is generated from ordinary water.<p>When I pulled an acrylic sweater out of the dryer I was wondering if low voltage generating is'nt a mindset that we have because we mostly use use fuel to convert mechanical energy in effect we have almost exclusively been cutting magnetic lines of force for our electricity.<p>Could a small filtered hydroelectric dam use a variation of electrostatic generation to be more efficient ?<p>A gallon of water over 3 foot drop ?
Is there possibilities for this ?<p>Have any natural high voltage methods been overlooked ?<p>How much would it cost to produce a spark from a battery in comparison?
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/egel/kelv1.html<p>Can this generator idea be improved ?<p>[ May 24, 2003: Message edited by: dimbulb ]</p>

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 3:34 pm
Voltage is merely the pressure in the pipe, amperage is the quantity of work or product delivered from the pipe. <p>Static voltage is a very low amperage charge, delivering lots of almost unuseable volts that would need to be stepped down at one point any way, with a loss at every turn in that process.<p> AC High voltage’s only advantage is the ability to travel long distances because of impedance if its AC, but because “static” voltages rarely ever produce or contain any usable amounts of current, and because they are DC in nature, they are just short of useless.

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 4:41 pm
There is a chapter on electrostatic generators in a book called "The Amateur Scientist", by C. L. Stong, pages 477 to 499. This was published by Simon and Schuster in 1960. It is mainly reprints of material published in the "Amateur Scientist" column of Scientific American. The book can probably be found either in a public library or a college library. The original columns may be available on microfilm in some libraries.<p>Electrostatic charges can be created by rubbing many substances together. The classical Greeks used amber, later investigators used sulfur and other materials. Machines for generating static electricity include the Wimhurst Machine and the Van de Graf Generator, as well as Lord Kelvin's "Water Dropper".<p>Van de Graf generators easily produce megavolt outputs, but at microamp currents. The optimum load for such a generator would be in the gigaohm to teraohm range. Everyday leakage resistances are usually far below this. There is no known analog of the magnetic transformer for electrostatic fields, and magnetic transformers do not work at that impedance level.<p>In theory, electrostatic generators can be built, but the devil is in the details, such as plate spacing and dielectric strength of the insulating material used.

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 11:16 pm
Ok thankyou for your feedback on this idea.
I think this idea has'nt been explored fully,
As it stands it is only demonstrating an arc but if it was designed to produce more current and converts voltage to AC continuously instead of DC discharging every 20 seconds it might have some promise on a larger scale.

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 12:13 am
It is Sunday and I'm feeling flippant.<p>The best source of high voltage is to take two boy scouts and rub them together.<p>And that joke about making a camp fire pre-dates even me! And it took me 3 hours to get my camp fire going, still I got my explorers badge.<p>On a less flippant note, I seem to recall that there was a patent for a microwave clothes dryer back in the 80's, which not only could handle metal in clothes, but also managed to reduce static in the fabric.<p>Colin

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:52 pm
I've heard about the microwave clothes drier; 30% less time and 50% less power. (Or was it 50% time and 30% less power???) Always wondered how they would handle snaps & zippers grommets. (Maybe Grommit from "Wallace and Grommit" would know about grommets...)<p>Anything wire-like in a microwave is fireworks Picture my sis's father-n-law warming his coffee in the ELECTRONIC SPOOKY HALLOWEEN PUMPKIN mug. For some strange reason it's never sounded since...<p>(Fade in the odor of burned phenolic wafting throughout the house...)<p>Usually when I mention "microwave" and "clothes-drier" in the same breath, people stand there awaiting a punch-line. Just like when I tell about the "tobacco plant with a firefly-gene spliced on", they expect something about a "self-lighting-cigarrette". (Instead of a plant that glows --- but the picture I saw, open-shutter 15 minute time exposure, was spectacular! Darned plant painted itself onto the film!!!!!)

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:19 pm
An Apertures on the microwave allows no feed back to the Magnatron, which otherwise would over load the insulation on the coil windings, [shelac] which then arcs the Magnatrons and burns it out. <p>Metal in microwaves has been around for decades, on some models. Commercial "Radar Ranges" in Restaurants allow metal in the cooking process and I have a home job Radar Range that works well, As long as you don’t cover the food with foil! No Arc, no bull!

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:20 am
Static, as noted, is probably not sustainable. I've thought more toward lightning. A lightning rod, insulated at its ground attatchment, grounded via welding cable through a large, wrapped capacitor ( oil-filled foil-wrap in a 5-gal. bucket), and in parallel a carbon-block resistor (auto batt.tester) mounted on several (more ?)hi-volt rectifiers. The Vres. drop will prevent over-volting the cap. So you waste a little current to gnd to limit dV/dT in the cap.<p>Musing or amusing ????

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:14 pm
What would be the point of such a generator ? You cannot manufacturer electricity without putting in the requisite amount of mechanical energy i.e. if you wish to generate 1kW for one second, thus achieving 1000 watt-seconds then you would have to put in 1000/0.746*550 = 737 foot-pounds of work. Thus your one gallon operating over a three foot head - If the energy (25 ft.lbf) were expended/converted in one second then, at 100% efficiency you would generate about 34 Watt-seconds or Joules

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:45 pm
Most newbies don’t understand the "No free lunch" sign of Physics. Like capturing a bolt of lightning that is capable of traveling 35 miles or more across the sky, and containing it in a capacitor one foot across? Where are you going to get a dielectric strong enough to contain a potential 35 mile wide arc, in a one foot square?<p>Un-obtanium?

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:49 am
Naw, Chris, it's called 'Fanta-cesium'. As far as the lightning, 35 miles might be mega-volts, but air ionizes at under 10kV, and any arc's voltage is a rapid dV/dt, so passing some through a carbon block would prevent all of the voltage from appearing across the cap. Compared to the static-water, it would produce more wattage less frequently. Of course neither of these is PRACTICAL, but if obtainable AND repeatable, my idea might just work on a remote mountaintop, in a blackout, during a hailstorm. In Florida, one group experimented by firing a hobby rocket with a fine copper wire attatched up into nimbus clouds. In almost every shot, they INDUCED a strike by lowering the threshold voltage. In latin, 'attemptus ad absurdus'.

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 8:16 am
I was going to do that my self, but only to produce the rare glass formed by those strikes. You set off the rocket from a bucket of sand of different types and colors, and the energy dumped down the wire melts the glass into very expensive and "rare glass", one that even has its own name!

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:29 am
As long as the gates to the funny farm are open, how about using the lightning for (a) heat, like an exploding pine tree but controlled, or (b) wrap 100' of 2/0 welding cable around a 55-gal drum and put a speaker magnet inside on a stand. I figure the magnet can hit Sputnik !!!!
On the serious side, though, most control of energy has to do with harnessing spikes into a fluent, sustainable power source. Gas & propane explode violently, so we put them in a cylinder & spark ignite. A tidal wave's fury is MADE when we dam (not 'damn') a reservoir. You see those hand-crank-generator radios? A truck's spring brake chamber has about 2,ooo# when compressed 6". That's 1,000 ft/lbs of convertible energy. But not sustainable. The only cheap, light, repeatable energy is chemical. But the most reactive ( & usually most efficient) can be hazardous, like chlorine. Are there liquids which react differently with N-type & P-type substrates? You could make a brine, & immerse solar cells, or thin doped wafers. If you wired a solar cell with platinum or palladium, would the catalytic reaction of hydrocarbons generate a voltage? If you coated/doped silicon with chlorine, would it generate a voltage in the presence of kerosene or turpentine or glycerine? And even if not a power source, will it sense those compounds safely & discretely??
Quick ! Someone close those gates !!!!!
'bye

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:25 am
Yep, "No Free Lunch"

### Re: Novel high voltage source

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:48 am
no free lunch huh.... I was kinda hungry for a perpetual motion device myself. lol