AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

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haklesup
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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by haklesup » Wed May 28, 2014 12:40 pm

I have also assumed that the batteries are removed when he tries the external power supply. They could become a pretty decent load themselves. Getting pos and neg backwards would be the most obvious cause but he has already said he did not do it. Without new evidence, we are at a dead end.

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by francesco » Wed May 28, 2014 1:39 pm

haklesup wrote:I have also assumed that the batteries are removed when he tries the external power supply. They could become a pretty decent load themselves. Getting pos and neg backwards would be the most obvious cause but he has already said he did not do it. Without new evidence, we are at a dead end.
That would be a correct assumption. Why would I leave the batteries in when I want to use the DC power supply?

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by dacflyer » Wed May 28, 2014 7:02 pm

if i was there i might could help you figure it out.. but i am here and am useless :P

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Edd
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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by Edd » Thu May 29, 2014 3:06 am

.


Behold . . . Most Honorable and Esteemed . . . . Nuts and Voltites ( and thats HEAVEEEEE on the NUTS)



Well here I am showing up for my annual Sabbatical and see that this is the only interesting thread now going on
. . .albeit . . . . even with some bickering developing.

I checked out that power supply and find that it is now having the physical stigma/eqiuivalency of a " personna non grata "
type of item, with the original supplied OEM Brother version, having a message now posted at THE Brother Home site,of :

" We're sorry, this item has been discontinued and is no longer available."

Now, doesn't that just reek of being suggestive of a defective ancillary product ? ? ? ?


Photo of . . . . .Ye Olde Brudder OEM . . . . . and all so Powerfull Supply:




Image


SINCE . . . . you will now find that everybody and their dogs brother is making, and now offerening equivalent replacement units.

In the past, I was able to acquire JUST that bare bones unit at a Ham flea market fo' a meager 15 Amellican dollah, but, with no extra
tape cartridges, no power unit and no f**kbook.
I only downloaded its book . . .130 pages . . .babycakes! . . . in order to see the COMBINATION of tandem key presses, required
in order to get special symbol functions.

The likes of which, I have now used so frequently, that I have them commited to my brains cache memory.
A full half or more of that concerned info was dedicated to computer interfacing . . .which I have no desire of using . . . with my making
of such simple labels.
A public library . . . and book titling . . .MAYBE yes!

I have only needed to re battery the unit , twice in the interim.

Heres my research feedback for you:

I was going to test using a new set of Alkaline cells and rapidly fabbed up a test aid for creating a series insert for ease of interruption
of the units total current loop for acquiring readings.

Now, for the uninitated . . .hunching over and raptly listening . . . . way up in the peanut gallery . . . .this units battery layout is two cells
end to end, with four sets put side to side for a "square" flat pack.

I happened to have a sheet of .005 in brass shim stock, (Which I've slowly been using off of, for the last 25 years) so I cut two strips 1/4 in
wide by a 2 in length.

I then cut two 1/2 in wide by 3 in long " insulators " from Scotch clear packaging tape (the one that makes SO much collateral noise . . .
when unreeling a piece )

Each brass contact strip then gets centered on its insulative tapes sticky side and is adhered. A piece of sticky double side tape joins the CENTRAL
slick sides of the two tape insulators, leaving the contacts then being externally opposed, but insulated apart.

I installed 6 cells and then I lifted out a set of two cells and placed this aid between the center of them and had both cell ends in the ends of the
battery holder with their centers up in the air, then a slow lowering of them, pressed the + and - of those cells into each strip of the test aid..
Four crossing strips of tape held the cells from popping out due to the cover not being in place.
I then tack soldered a decimal 1 ohm film resistor across the brass strips ends, producing a current shunt.

Set up Ye Olde Tek scope for monitoring:
and then . . .AND THEN . . .

Just testing in the printing mode, seems like a simple period or comma is pulling about a rapid 250 ma by the heating matrix, while the more
complex font combinations are pulling quick 500-600 ma bursts.
With a longer text tape then ready to be printed . . . I hit the feed button and there is an initial start up burst of ~200 milliseconds duration where
~900 ma is being pulled and then settles in at ~600 ma of motor running current.

Now . . . if this was MY problem to solve, I would be initually doing a dynamic evaluation of that OEM Brother AD-60 power supply.

By the large size of that unit we seem to be dealing with a linear supply with a 60~ transformer internal , whereas, a switch mode design
is usually being only 2/3 to a half of that physical sizing.

Also check out the weight of the unit as for expecting the mass and weight of a power transformer being inside. Or, if the unit is being of a switch mode
design genre, it would be as light as a popcorn fart.

The next testing would be the units voltage sag when subjected to ~ full loading.

I'm expecting the unit to be putting out somewhat above that 9.5 VDC spec when you just plug in the power unit solo and take a DC reading of the
unloaded output voltage with your DVM at the power connector end.

(Also confirm its connector shell as actually being of + polarity.)

As an aside evaluation, additionally put the DVM in AC mode and retest and perchance see if there is any residual AC voltage presence.
(With none really being expected.)

If that is passing testing, then a dynamic loading would be next, and a common 10 ohm loading resistor would be an adequate load.
To preclude any test lead "fumbling", use two clip type test leads to each of the close inner sides of the resistor, and with them then
going over to each meter probe tip.

Then you can fold around the resistor ends close enough to be able to TEMPORARILY make connect with the power connector end.

Plug in the supply and make a reading of the units DC voltage output at this subjected degree of loading. Do it QUICK, no longer than it takes
for acquiring a stable meter reading to just have developed.

I specified that latter, just in case you are so "components" poor that you don't have a pot to piss in . . .figuratively.

OR if you happen to not have a 10 or 5 watt unit, and are using a 2 watt film in a pinch. Which you could do . . . IF BEING VERY QUICK.

I have seen some 2W metal FILM units running at a dull red glow . . . . . ( Like its papa was a toaster and its mama was a Calrod heating element.)

Now, either that voltage didn't pull down over ~15 % from our prior unloaded value, or it did , and if the latter is the case; flip the metering to AC
mode again and test to see what, if any, AC (ripple) reading is being present.

Use the same QUICK reading technique.

Should that AC ripple be up in the 5% borderline and on upward, I suspect bad internal electrolytic filter capacitors.

That units code dating is suggestive of the time frame of the "Great Taiwanese Capacitor Debacle" where they distributed scads of electrolytic
capacitors which failed in quick order if subjected to operating temps that then onset internal chemical decomposition and a spiraling upward of ESR.
And then there was a and final decline of produced overall capacitance . . . .with some of them blowing their tops or at the least, rupturing /flexing
the pressure slits and pooching up the tops..

(Computer power supplies-Big screen TV's, particularly the flat screen ones where the power supplies are so heat taxed - camcorders-consumer
electronics . . .slowly failed . . . ad infinitum )

Be it that the capacitor sourcing actually was from TAIWAN . . . . . OR if they ACTUALLY were being second sourced . . .on the cheap . . . from
mainland China.

With that power supplies plastic casing unit being ultrasonically welded, they don't just pull apart for evaluation/repairs.

HOWEVER I have pulled units apart by S L O W surgical use of a Zona razor saw aside to the seams . . .its just to touchy for using a cut off wheel
in a Dremel tool.

That brings us up to the possibility that the supply may have met all of the above specs, and you could suspicion the problem as being the internal
wiring and any hidden shunting or series circuitry being associated with that power connector receptacle (its zero clearance in there !).

Parts like series or shunting diodes or zener diodes or low voltage power VDR's /varistors.

To confirm that, pull out all batteries to the Brother unit and take metering in hand and switch to low ohms and touch one meter probe
to that outside shell of the power connector.
Use the other meter probe to find which of the 8 battery connector is reading ~zero ohms and that is your + battery connection into the unit
circuitry, and IIRC the battery connector diagonally across from that one will be one that was previously receiving a - cell contact end.

To double confirm that, use your meters ohms function to confirm the intercell jumpers between the other 6 battery contacts.
The + and - will not interconnect to them.

You then can use that tested power supply and connect it with 2 jumper leads/clips between those + and - battery connectors .
In a pinch, a brass/the best / steel . .ok) . . wood screw can provide a tapered "screwable" in contact for the recessed hole in the
power connector to permit clipping onto.

This system should now test out just like you are using batteries.

Which would then suggest an internal problem in the parts/wiring/ancillary interfacing associated with that power input jack.

Standing by for any developed feedback . . . . . .

Thassssitttt.

73's de Edd

[email protected]. . . . . . . . (Interstellar~~~~~Warp~~~~Speed)
[email protected]. . . . . . . . . (Firewalled*Spam*Cookies*Crumbs)


The next time when I go to the ATM, and just after the money comes out, I'm going to
jump up and down, then flail my arms wildly about and finally shout out, for all to hear.

"I won!" "I won!" . . . its the 3rd time this week ! ! ! "





####7 Copywight 2014 by Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved. !.

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by Lenp » Thu May 29, 2014 5:51 am

Hi Ed,
In case you missed this, the OP is not using the AD-60 power pack, he is connecting directly to the battery connections, through a rewired power jack sans power supply board. You have provided details that he has yet to provide about current draw.

Now, for those that might care...
Attached are two schematics of the PT-2600, and as can be seen, there is a lot more than meets the eye. Why the OP never bothered to get these is a mystery.... The entire service manual is also available at https://www.maisiemanuals.com but it is too large to attach.

Len
Attachments

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[The extension pdf has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

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"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by haklesup » Thu May 29, 2014 12:20 pm

forgive me if I have not fully absorbed Edd's post yet but if that is the proper battery pack I note that the positive on the outer shell configuration is atypical compared to most wall warts and makes it easy to get the wrong replacement. it doesn't sound like its what burned out for the OP, just noting the observation
That would be a correct assumption. Why would I leave the batteries in when I want to use the DC power supply?
You shouldn't but until stated it remained an assumption, I don't assume unstated things are self evident, I simply weight the probability. In normal operation you may have been able to do that (use AC power while batteries were installed). If that is the case, there may have been a provision to disable the battery connection when the adapter is operating. So I ask, about that failed power board you removed, was it originally wired in parallel to the battery just like you are trying to do or was it connected to different terminals internally than the batteries. Investigating that connection may lead to new clues

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by Edd » Fri May 30, 2014 12:41 pm

.



Greetings. . . . . kind Sires:


Three initial comments:

1 . . . . .
When I was tearing down my evaluation rigging and starting to file my current shunt diode, I realised that I had been using
a 1 ohm instead of a one tenth ohm resistor.
Sooooooooo . . .that means that . . .THOSE SUPPLIED CURRENT READINGS NEED TO BE REDUCED BY A DECADE..
Usually I am utilizing digitally marked units but that banded unit slipped by me with its silver or gold or gold-silver or silver-gold . . .
I just don't deal with color code reading
of those lower values that frequently.
Give me 10 ohms or above and I can read a continual differing series of them as quickly as I can speak. . . . .in reality . . . .
HAVING to speak is seriously slowing me down

2 . . . . .
Thanks for the new tech info sourcing . . .its new to me . . . .I just used your supplied data . . . as I didn't raelize how many
different products that Brother makes.


3 . . . . .
I placed an explanatory schematic with this post, defining the battery versus power pack operation.

And now I continue:



IN SEPARATING FRANCESCOS POSTS . . . . . . . ONLY



Hi, I've been researching this and cannot find any info on this.

I have a label printer that can only work with batteries (eight 1.5V batteries and will not take rechargeables). I have tried
various 12V AC-adapters (with a steady 12V output) without any success.

How can I make this work?
THE ONLY QUESTION POSSIBLY NOW WOULD BE THE . . . .(with a steady 12V output) . . . .
WITH THAT BEING A STEADY 12 VDC OUTPUT AND NOT EVER HAVING BEEN RAW AC.

________________________________________________________________________________________________
Oh yes, I am using 12V DC and one of them had a 4A output. Polarity checked to be correct.

The batteries are all in series and checked wiring (1 wire at each end of the series).

Also, if the batteries and 12DC power is connected the printer turns on and i'm pretty sure it only uses the batteries for power.
THAT NOW CONFIRMS THE 12VDC QUESTION
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Jack is fine because there is voltage at the circuit board when the batteries are not there.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t work with rechargeable batteries if I hadn’t tried it with fully charged batteries. The typical
rechargeable is only 1.2V so that may be a reason why they won’t work.

This unit is a Brother P-Touch 2600. It had a separate circuit board for 12V DC power that fed directly in to the mainboard.
This circuit board is now dead, thus, the printer works only on batteries. Besides, if there is a jack, it could be because I added one.
THE PROBABILITY OF THE "BAD" POWER BOARD IS FOR F1 FUSE BEING OPEN . . . .
SOME MODERN FUSES ARE GUISED SO DIFFERENTLY, THAT YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE ONE . .
IF FULLY EXPECTING THE CONVENTIONAL MINIATURE GLASS ENCASED FUSE.
AT LEAST YOU STILL HAVE THE F1 SYMBOLIZATION ON THE PCB GOING FOR YOU . . .AS IN FUSE 1.


I rewired the DC jack directly to the battery terminal (mindful of polarity). I tried seven 12V power supplies ranging from
1A to 4A. Out of these, the only one that worked was the 12V (17A) output of a PC ATX power supply. While this works, it
is not a practical solution.
IF YOU TOOK A SEPARATE CONNECTOR AND OBSERVED POLARITY AND
CONNECTED IT TO THE POINTS THAT THE CH 7 AND CH 8 CONNECTION POINTS ON THE POWER
SUPPLY BOARD WERE GOING TO ON THE BROTHER MAIN UNIT . . . . THAT SHOULD WORK.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Doesn't matter. The DC power circuit board is not working and has been bypassed.
I ' M A BIT FUZZY ON THIS SITUATION, AS I DON'T KNOW "HOW" YOU
BYPASSED IT, AS THERE IS QUITE A HEFTY AMOUNT OF FILTER RESERVE PROVIDED BY THAT C1 CAP.
PLUS, MY ASSUMPTION THAT THERE NOW IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE AND COMPLETELY NEW POWER
INPUT CONNECTOR THAT IT IS NOW WIRED TO THE CH7 AND CH 8 CONNECTION POINTS OUT OF
THE POWER BOARD THAT WERE GOING TO, ON THE MAIN UNIT.
IF SO, THAT SHOULD ASSIMILATE THE IDENTICAL POWER CONDITIONS OF THE BATTERY PACK BEING
UTILIZED.
THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING WHEN I SUGGESTED MAKING THE CONNECTION OF A DC POWER PACK
INPUT TO THE TWO CLIPS OF THE BATTERY HOLDER


That is what I said. The point of that "test" was to see if it works.
I know there is nothing wrong with the printer since it works fine with batteries.

What I don't know is why it will work with a PC's ATX power supply and not with a standard DC power adapter.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
I thought when I had tested it a few months ago the voltage did not drop but I just tried to test it now and the power supply
detects a short and shuts off. Printer still operates fine on batteries.
ITS TIME FOR A DEPOWERED UNIT AND THE USE OF MR OHMMMETER.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
How is that possible when the jack is wired directly to the battery compartment output terminals?
I CAN ONLY SEE THE INITIAL "BAD" ASPECT OF YOUR POWER BOARD
WITH IT NOT LETTING POWER FROM YOUR BATTERY THRU DUE TO A BLOWN OPEN F1.
AND POSSIBLY, WITH AN ADDITIONAL BAD C1 (SHORTED) , BUT THATS HARD TO IMAGINE, WITH
THAT D1 STEERING DIODE PROTECTING IT. (UNLESS AC WAS APPLIED AT SOME EARLIER TIME.)
PLUS THERE ARE BEING NO SACRIFICIAL / PROTECTIVE SHUNT DIODES USED IN THIS DESIGN.
UNLESS YOU TRIED TO USE AND REWIRE THE UNITS EXISTING J1 IN THE UNIT FOR STILL
BEING YOUR 'POWER CONNECTOR.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, it has been modified and the only mod is the wiring of the DC jack. The only way you can help is if you know how
to make this
device see the DC power supply as a battery.
OBSERVE THE SIMPLIFIED ATTACHED SCHEMATIC OF THE TWO DIFFERENT POWER PATHS
ACCOMPLISHED.
[/size]

Even though DC power comes out of batteries and DC power supplies, there are differences between the two power sources. The
battery input of this printer was obviously designed to work only with batteries and I need to know what can I do to make it work
with a DC power supply. How difficult is that to understand?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

My frustration comes from the fact that you’re not reading everything I typed, you keep referring to the useless manual and you
look for what might be in between the lines rather than focusing on the lines.

Yes, it was necessary to modify the wiring on the jack. The special circuit Brother installed was burnt, which I believe I mentioned
in an earlier post.

If the fix was simple I wouldn’t be here asking for anything. So save your simple solutions and manual references for somebody else.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks, Haklesup.

The printer gets used at least once a week, the power button is a momentary/soft switch so I’m sure it is using a very small amount
of power at all times and the batteries were installed a few months ago. So the batteries last a long time.

When I got the printer, it already had a this problem. It came with a 12V power supply and I think it is how that circuit board got damaged.
GIVE US DETAILED SPECS ON THAT UNIT IF IT WAS NOT THE OEM UNIT I DEPICTED. THE ORIGINAL OWNER
MIGHT HAVE HIT THE UNIT WITH AC IN HIS ATTEMPTS WITH YET A DIFFERENT POWER WALL WART.


As of right now, the printer works fine with batteries but DC power supplies detect a short. And, again, the DC power supply is connected
directly to the +/- terminals where the batteries would normally be.

I think I have seen this before when trying to attach a DC power supply to a battery operated device that was not provisioned to run with
a DC power supply. There has to be something different or missing that is causing the DC power supply to detect a short. Unfortunately,
I only have access to a cheap multi-meter.
THAT SIMPLE MULTIMETER SHOULD BE ADEQUATE. AC OR DC VOLTS ALONG WITH OHMS FOR SHORT TESTING
OR SEMI TESTING.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
The battery compartment only has 2 wires. Positive and negative. I believe if there was a problem with the intermediate battery connections
the printer would not work properly when in use.


The DC power board only had 2 wires that came out of it.

DC power supply's voltage drops to 0 when connected to the battery terminals and need to figure out some kind of circuit
I can make that will make it work. I don't see a cap working with this situation since a 17A power supply wouldn't work.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

If a device works fine with batteries, logically, it is in working condition and there is no short circuit or extreme load.
Logically, if there was an
extreme load, the batteries would drain very fast. Logically, if there was a short circuit, the printer would not turn on even
with batteries. A short circuit can happen when the resistance of a circuit is too low and yes I have acknowledged from the
beginning that there has to be a difference, hence the reason why Brother added a separate circuit for DC power supplies.
The lower resistance design is probably there lower battery consumption. Logical.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________


Finally . . . .heres that Tech info :

Image



73's de Edd

[email protected]. . . . . . . . (Interstellar~~~~~Warp~~~~Speed)
[email protected] . . . . . . . . (Firewalled*Spam*Cookies*Crumbs)



Ya' wanna know the difference between an oral and a rectal thermometer? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ( pause ) . . . . . . . . . . (think) . . . . . . . . . . The taste ! ! ! ! !







.

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Lenp
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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by Lenp » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:39 am

Guess the OP either fixed it or gave up.......
Len

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"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Post by Lenp » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:41 am

.
Len

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"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by dacflyer » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:04 pm

don't ya just hate that....leave ya hanging

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Lenp
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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by Lenp » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:41 pm

I didn't think there was a solution to this one from the start!
Len

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"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by jwax » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:46 am

My guess is that Edd's remarkable presentation caused the OP's head to explode.

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Lenp
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Re: AC-Adapter for Battery operated device

Post by Lenp » Fri May 15, 2015 2:41 pm

Ah Ha

Almost a year has passed, and I do wonder out loud if the printer was ever fixed, trashed or burned beyond recognition.....
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Post by Lenp » Fri May 15, 2015 2:42 pm

Removed duplicate post due to "white screen syndrome"!
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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