batteries

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dacflyer
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batteries

Post by dacflyer » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:52 pm

why is it that batteries never seem to leak until they are installed into something ?
they can lay around for years, but as soon as they are installed. they will soon leak.
whats up with that ?

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Externet
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Re: batteries

Post by Externet » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:01 am

I see a couple of reasons; first is Murphy's law.
Second, cells laying around are not being discharged beyond whatever state they may currently be; and as soon as installed, they have a chance for a current path to fully discharge them to the point chemicals inside do their bad behavior.
- Abolish the deciBel ! -

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Re: batteries

Post by Dean Huster » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:35 am

They leak in the unopened package for me as well. The last batteries I bought were Dollar General brand, $1 each for 9v rectangular batteries. I figure that it's stupid to spend $5 each for a Duracell or Energizer that's just going to leak anyway. If the DG battery leaks, at least I have something to blame that's expected to be below par. Actually, that's not a fair statement. I have yet to have a 9v battery leak. It's always the AAA, AA, C and D cells that do the leaking, new or old, unopened package or not.
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

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Re: batteries

Post by dacflyer » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:25 am

i have had 9-Bolt (as a kid i could not say volt :P ) batteries corrode, the 9V snap would be trashed as well..

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Re: batteries

Post by Janitor Tzap » Thu May 01, 2014 7:15 am

I have found 9V batteries that have blow they're tops off when they fail or go dead. :P

Though, It gave me the opportunity as too see how the batteries were constructed.

One looked like it was made up of AAAA cells tack welded together to make Nine Volts.

While others had multiple stacked flat batteries used to make the Nine Volts.

Yes,
It seems that I've been seeing batteries fail and leak much more now, then some ten years ago.
I have two flashlights where the reflectors chrome paint has been complete taken off from the batteries that leaked acid.


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Lenp
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Re: batteries

Post by Lenp » Thu May 01, 2014 7:26 am

Battery Leaking is a larger problem than most people realize. One of the low profit adventures that I am involved with is being a Warranty Service Center for MagLite flashlights. Many flashlights returned for service are corroded beyond reasonable repair. I have seen flashlights with 3 or more cells that had a battery stuck at the far end. The customer complains they changed batteries but it still don't work right because they were unaware of the stuck cell. MagLite flashlights are all aluminum and it is anodized inside and out. That helps but if the coating is damaged, and the batteries corrode, they soon become a permanent part of the flashlight.

Corrosion is a problem with all batteries, regardless of their chemistry. The big name players as well as the dollar store brands all can leak but the better label batteries seem to have less problems. You get what you are paying for.

Up until March, 2013, Maglite had agreements with Rayovac, Eveready and Duracell, to repair or replace a damaged unit at no cost. Now, the customer must pay for the parts if the repair is desired. Coincidentally, the repair parts prices also tripled!

Here are some suggestions I can offer to help prevent corrosion damage to flashlights.

Remove the batteries if the product will not be used or will be stored for a long time. Store them separately in a dry temperate area.

Do not use batteries in an expensive product after their expiration date. They may work well but the integrity of the battery casing may be failing and it can start leaking. Put them in an inexpensive flashlight until they quit. The manufacturer has no idea what use you have for the battery, so the date is really just an estimate, not a guarantee. Batteries can expire in a day or less based on the load and batteries that were never used can still corrode.

Do not mix batteries by different manufacturers or age. Replace all batteries at the same time with batteries from the same lot or date code if possible. Different batteries have different capacities and may perform unpredictably. A cell can actually reverse polarity!

Use a quality flashlight. There can be enough moisture trapped in a flashlight to cause the battery to self discharge under some conditions, like in marine or cold and hot temperature environments. The MagLite is sealed with 'O' rings and other seals to prevent moisture from getting in. It is not rated for underwater use, but it is well protected.

Inspect the batteries and battery compartment frequently.
Even if the flashlight seems to work properly, corrosion may be starting that can be repaired.

FYI
Some of the big name battery manufacturers will directly compensate a customer for a damaged flashlight. Check their web sites for conditions.

NOTE:This is not a pitch for MagLite. I don't have flashlights to sell, I just repair them as a Warranty Service Center!

Len
Len

“To invent, you need a good imagination and a big pile of junk.” (T. Edison)
"I must be on the way to success since I already have the junk". (Me)

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Re: batteries

Post by jwax » Thu May 01, 2014 7:36 am

Have to agree with Len, "You get what you pay for".
Lowe's have been selling an el cheapo brand and they are worthless. Tried their 9 volt batteries, and wish I had not bought a 50-pack of them! Low capacity.

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Re: batteries

Post by dracoamericanus » Mon May 12, 2014 12:23 am

I do service as well for a lot of different devices and have seen batteries leak even before they have discharged , i still call Duracell Duraleaks as i have run into a lot that have failed in that manner but i don't believe they have a higher failure mode then other brands but because it's a more common brand i see. on one MagLite i own i repaired by using a 2 ton press to force the failed battery out.
What i wish to know is why batteries fail like this more often then in the past, i have some raoyvac "sealed in steel" batteries from the 1950's in a display and they look brand new still. So i think it may be a cost cutting thing or that current chemistry is more corrosive to the case and seals. The only type i have yet to see leak like this is lithium "aside from them catching fire"
I know when looking for new horde items i always check for battery corrosion, even the vapor from the failed battery can cause electrical problems father into the device

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Re: batteries

Post by Dean Huster » Sat May 17, 2014 7:42 pm

I have a pair of "antique" "D" cells. My old brain won't let me remember the brand name -- black and white stripes -- why can't I remember this? Anyway, this pair looks good as new. I don't think the brand has been around since the 1950s or early 1960s. Each measures about 0.5 to 1v, so there's some wet chemistry in there, but not a lot. But they look fairly new -- not a spot of corrosion or leakage (chemically speaking, anyway). They, of course, are of carbon/zinc chemistry, long before alkalines were a gleam in a manufacturer's eyes.

So, I'd say in answer to one muse, "Yes, I think that modern batteries leak more often per 100 units sold than they did back in the olden days.

I'd also say that when Mallory first came out with the Duracell brand, they didn't leak like they do now whoever's ownership they're under now.

Sometimes, it like asking, "Were Heathkits better under their original company flag, that of Daystrom, or of Schlumberger, or of Zenith?
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

R.I.P.

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Re: batteries

Post by haklesup » Wed May 21, 2014 2:33 pm

Duracell and Everready among other brands have several grades of alkaline batteries priced and constructed differently. its not fair to judge the brand on its lower cost line. Some of there are constructed more durably to reduce leaks.

I think the root cause is that the chemical reaction that occurs in a dead battery actually increases the volume of the chemicals inside (precipitated crystal takes more space than its dissolved components). This drives the internal pressure of the cell up until its structure leaks.

At the moment Eveready brags about their Gold line and Duracell brags about their Quantum line. Both have larger capacity and longer shelf life. Whether 10 years guaranteed shelf life is the same as leaving a battery in a device turned off for 10 years, I am not sure but I presume the guarantee is against discharge which would certainly happen if it were to leak. Most leaks happen to dead batteries and the manufacturers make no specific claims about leakage. At least one online review said the Eveready gold did not leak.

From Eveready FAQ
Typically, alkaline batteries will not leak under normal storage and usage conditions. However, the potential for leakage is significantly increased if batteries are subjected to charging, mixing of battery chemistries, mixing of fresh and used batteries, physical damage, extended exposure to high temperature or deep discharging. Alkaline battery leakage is extremely caustic and contact with bare skin should be avoided. In the event that battery leakage comes in contact with your skin, flush the area for 15 minutes with copious amounts of water.

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Re: batteries

Post by CeaSaR » Fri May 30, 2014 10:00 pm

The best batteries I have ever had, in regards to leakage (or should I say NOT leaking) were the Radio Shack red Enercell batteries. Never did any of those "free battery card" batteries leak. As a testament to their construction, I had 4 in one of the "RS" bicycle radio/horn units for over 10 years in my closet. I cleaned out the closet in order to move and when I spun the volume control to turn it on, my favorite station came through loud and clear. When they finally died, I took them out and not one deformity, bit of wetness or even rust were on any of them. Even all the other ones I had through the years were completely sealed at the end of their lives.

Can't say that about any of the big names, little names or no-names I've had. Ever.

Of course, if you must store a device with batteries installed, put at least one in backwards. This greatly helps the storage life. A couple of my camping flashlights have been in storage for a few years that way and the batteries are still good and charged. Just pop the top, flip the first battery around, put the top back on and you are in business.

CeaSaR
Hey, what do I know?

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Re: batteries

Post by dacflyer » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:38 am

i still have a few of the Green RS batteries laying around in my junk drawer,,2 of the 9-bolt batteries :)

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Re: batteries

Post by Joseph » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:11 pm

A way that I learned from my brother to extend the storage life of batteries is to store them in the freezer.

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Re: batteries

Post by dacflyer » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:01 am

i think that was a myth..
i cannot remember where but i think it was proven that it did not help any.
otherwise i'd think that stores would have batteries in coolers..lol

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Re: batteries

Post by Janitor Tzap » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:22 am

Dean Huster wrote:I have a pair of "antique" "D" cells. My old brain won't let me remember the brand name -- black and white stripes -- why can't I remember this? Anyway, this pair looks good as new. I don't think the brand has been around since the 1950s or early 1960s. Each measures about 0.5 to 1v, so there's some wet chemistry in there, but not a lot. But they look fairly new -- not a spot of corrosion or leakage (chemically speaking, anyway). They, of course, are of carbon/zinc chemistry, long before alkalines were a gleam in a manufacturer's eyes.
Your thinking of the old Burgess Batteries.
Image
dacflyer wrote:
Joseph wrote: A way that I learned from my brother to extend the storage life of batteries is to store them in the freezer.
i think that was a myth..
i cannot remember where but i think it was proven that it did not help any.
otherwise i'd think that stores would have batteries in coolers..lol
I don't know about the newer batteries.

But the old Carbon/Zinc batteries would hold charge longer when kept colder.
Story:
Many years ago now, my one uncle was living in Arizona working night time at a open pit mining job.
He had to have a flashlight with him at all times.
But the heat was murder on batteries out there.
So he'd put a dozen fresh D batteries into the freezer,
and the next night before he went to work.
Pull out 2 batteries for his flashlight, and use them for that night.
One nice thing about the old Carbon/Zinc batteries was they could be recharged.
He'd recharge the batteries, and the ones that didn't take a charge, got throw out.
The ones that did, went back to the freezer.
Here's a battery site with some interesting facts.
http://www.greenbatteries.com/battery-m ... y-facts-1/


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