Generator Question

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haklesup
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Re: Generator Question

Post by haklesup »

I'm not convinced its the generator either, the pump may be showing signs of age evident in incresed start current
The pump is not an issue, The run current is within the published numbers, on the generator once it overcomes the start up and the pump runs without fail on the normal power. As for a low water table, I am on the East Coast Hurricane, weeks of rain.... More water than ever!
The run current may be fine but clearly it's the starting current that you are having trouble overcoming, after all it runs once you get it started. you're generator is acting exactly as I would expect it to if it were trying to power a load marginally over its capacity. You don't need to change the water level to change the start current, all you need is for the bearings to start to wear out or for sediment to provide additional resistance to starting or perhaps there is a starter capacitor not working optimally or corrosion in just the wrong spot or a partial obstruction in the water flow path etc.

You should be measuring the inrush current at startup and compare that to a new motor (which I'm sure is impractical) Does the spec also state starting or inrush current? I bet you wish you had an old Analog meter now.

You can only throttle up so much. as soon as the electrical load (in W) exceeds the mechanical load (in hp) (figuring for efficiencies) the engine will stall. What I find odd is that it seems to recover better with more loads than without. (as far as the fridge and freezer goes, I bet if all four kicked on at one time, the multiplied start current would stall the generator. Fortunately one or more will be either idling or running but not starting when the others are starting.). Maybe with the additional resistive loads, it copes better with the inductive loads
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dacflyer
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Re: Generator Question

Post by dacflyer »

hi Bob - i am sure you do know that most all engines do not work at rated HP until they are at the rated MAX RPMs.. so a 50HP engine is not out putting 50HP @ 1800 RPMs

and most generators usually scream at 3600 RPMs i hate that. my favorite is ONAN brand generators, they putt along at a nice 1800 RPMs i do not know why they make the 3600 RPM units so commonly.
my guess is they use so much more fuel, and wear out faster. not to mention so much more noisier.

i do know most generators that run 3600rpms have a 2 pole armature.
and the 1800's have a 4 pole armature. :)
dyarker
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Re: Generator Question

Post by dyarker »

dac, your first sentence partly answers your question in second sentence.

With a direct shaft connection between engine and generator, the engine must run at 3600RPM to give 60Hz power.
3600RPM / 60 seconds per minute = 60CPS = 60Hz

General purpose gasoline engines produce more torque per fuel at higher RPM. If ONAN made an engine for their generator that produces good torque at 1800RPM they probably custom made the engine with different piston diameter to stroke ratio than general purpose engines.

Cheers,
Dale Y
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Bob Scott
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Re: Generator Question

Post by Bob Scott »

VW Toureg 5.0 V10 TDI (Turbo Injected Diesel)
Maximum torque is at 2000 RPM, close enough to 1,800 that it looks like it was made for the job!
Image
This would make an excellent engine for a high power backyard backup jenny. From the torque curve, I calculate that at 2,000 RPM this engine produces a max power of 156 kW. That figure agrees with the power curve. So, it can be stripped of the turbo and still generate Dean's target of 40 kW of electricity whilst merely loafing at 1,800 RPM. Dean's idea of using a VW diesel is a good one.

(If you right-click on the image to view the "properties", you'll see that I borrowed this graph from another forum. I hope they don't mind.)
-=VA7KOR=- My solar system includes Pluto.
reloadron
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Re: Generator Question

Post by reloadron »

Hi Ya Lemp

Image

The attached image may or may not be of some help to you. Anyway the engine should governor at 3600 RPM so if possible and you have a counter you can try and measure the line frequency (through a small transformer) for 60 Hz. It sounds like the governor isn't working. I have one of those units out in the shed. Haven't used it since I went whole house system. Also, I believe newer units have an idle feature of sorts so with no load they idle and only come up on load. Not sure.

Also the Frequency should be:

Frequency = (Number of Poles) X (RPM) / 120.

2 * 3600 = 7200 / 120 = 60 Hz.

Most 3600 RPM and 3000 RPM 60 and 50 Hz are 2 pole generators using the higher RPM gasoline engines. The diesel versions are normally 4 pole generators using the lower RPM. I think that is how it works out anyway.

Ron
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Lenp
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Re: Generator Question

Post by Lenp »

Ron,
I think the drawing is generic enough to be a close match the Coleman generator. I'll check the diodes and cap first. Maybe the exciter voltage is low or drops under load?

I've had to put this project on hold but I'll be getting back into this problem, possibly this week.
Since I used the generator last it has rained nearly every day. It looks like the hurricane left but the rain got stuck!
Thanks,
Len
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