Electric Vehicles

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Erik Seyler
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Electric Vehicles

Post by Erik Seyler » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:32 am

I am interested in building some EV's. I thought I would start small like a go cart or something.The ready to use kits employ series wound DC motors & prebuilt controllers.I would prefer to buy a less expensive motor and build my own controller.
Does anyone know where I can finf info on that sort of thing or suggest an affordable source for DC motors.
Thanks
Erik

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Joseph
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Joseph » Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:17 am

You can purchase a good quality Pitman motor from Hosfelt Electronics. I purchased a gearbox I used on an electric bicycle from Rademan Electronics and some sprockets to fit 1/4" motor shafts from All Electronics. <p>Or, you choose to drive the tire directly. you may find some premade assemblies having a one-way friction collar on the output shafts of two motors connected end to end from Mendelson Electronics.<p>[ January 17, 2003: Message edited by: Joseph Meisenhelder ]</p>

Dimbulb
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Dimbulb » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:38 am

I looked at electric wheel chairs and found that latest had reclining seats and front wheel drive.
Very nice quad off road types had nice frame and suspension.<p>Some of the best motors where originally used to move aeroplane wing flaps. Use of two motors and a transaxle at 24 volts each are common but the faster ones can handle 36 or more. The low center of gravity was to prevent spills but other vehicles can't see them as well so needing more visible overhead. Can't expect the gas vehicles to yield to alot of scooters at present.

Dean Huster
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Dean Huster » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:22 pm

Little personal electric vehiles would be a lot of fun to experiment with. Lots of technology involved. But for some reason, there sure are a lot of folks who think that all-electric cars are the way of the future. They claim that the biggest hurdle is the batteries. That isn't the half of it. The batteries are such a huge hurdle that I'll bet it'll be 50 years before anything that can compete with a gasoline engine will be on the road. By then, we'll have figured out something to use besides batteries.<p>The range of the vehile is the big stumbling block, of course. Claims of 100 miles or more is foolishness. That's purely modest, low-speed flatland driving in southern California sunshine. Now add some realistic hills and your range will decrease because of the added power needed to climb them. Is it dark or poor visibility? Suddenly you need to spend some of that battery power on front and rear lighting. Down goes the range. Rainy? Now you need windshield wipers and a defogger, complete with a bit of electric heat and a blower motor. Less range yet. Is it cold? It's batteries that'll provide power for the heater unless you carry a propane tank with you. The range keeps going down. Sweltering 110° day? Air conditioning is going to cost you a lot of battery power. Range? What range?<p>Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

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Joseph
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Joseph » Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:17 am

Because of the range problem, I have been looking into the hybrid concept. Problem is, fuel cells are not feasible yet and decent gasoline engines are too big. I am considering trying to make steam drive a loudspeaker for a hybrid power source. The steam would heat a chamber in which a small amount of water would be introduced at a rate maybe as high as into the ultrasonic range. It may be possible to use an exponential horn in which a standing wave could be started. The steam would be produced at the small end and the speaker would be at the wide end. Condensation at the wide end would be forced back into the steam chamber by the standing wave pressure.

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Externet
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Externet » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:04 am

Hi Erik.
I have a couple of 23 HP DC generator/motors removed from electric cars available. (No golf carts; but the real thing)
Let me know if you are interested.
Miguel
- Abolish the deciBel ! -

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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by sylvestercat » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:15 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Joseph Meisenhelder:
Because of the range problem, I have been looking into the hybrid concept. Problem is, fuel cells are not feasible yet and decent gasoline engines are too big. I am considering trying to make steam drive a loudspeaker for a hybrid power source. The steam would heat a chamber in which a small amount of water would be introduced at a rate maybe as high as into the ultrasonic range. It may be possible to use an exponential horn in which a standing wave could be started. The steam would be produced at the small end and the speaker would be at the wide end. Condensation at the wide end would be forced back into the steam chamber by the standing wave pressure.<hr></blockquote><p>So, all those cars I see (and hear) on the road are proof of concept cars for this idea? Can you use some other music source besides Rap for this concept? I would think you could use something like a Bach contata to get you to and from church, while if you wanted to tool down the highway you would use the Eroica or Choral symphoneise of Ludwig von B.
If I put my finger in this light socket, will it straigten out my hair?

ele1200
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by ele1200 » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:17 am

How about using all four wheels as a generator to generate or to recharge the batteries?

sylvestercat
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by sylvestercat » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:24 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dean Huster:
Little personal electric vehiles would be a lot of fun to experiment with. Lots of technology involved. But for some reason, there sure are a lot of folks who think that all-electric cars are the way of the future. They claim that the biggest hurdle is the batteries. That isn't the half of it. The batteries are such a huge hurdle that I'll bet it'll be 50 years before anything that can compete with a gasoline engine will be on the road. By then, we'll have figured out something to use besides batteries.<p>The range of the vehile is the big stumbling block, of course. Claims of 100 miles or more is foolishness. That's purely modest, low-speed flatland driving in southern California sunshine. Now add some realistic hills and your range will decrease because of the added power needed to climb them. Is it dark or poor visibility? Suddenly you need to spend some of that battery power on front and rear lighting. Down goes the range. Rainy? Now you need windshield wipers and a defogger, complete with a bit of electric heat and a blower motor. Less range yet. Is it cold? It's batteries that'll provide power for the heater unless you carry a propane tank with you. The range keeps going down. Sweltering 110° day? Air conditioning is going to cost you a lot of battery power. Range? What range?<p>Dean<hr></blockquote><p>This kind of discussion makes me sad. I am a big believer in the kind of odd discussion you see in the papers of futuristic power souces.<p>One of my fovorite ideas (I think this is a leg pull, but it so neat I really want to believe it) is the idea of powered Hydrogen fuel cells. You put in some gas, the fuel cell breaks the gasoline into the constituent parts (the carbon, for example is stored in a comparment for later sale) while he H and the O are broken apart and reconstituted to drive the motors.<p>the problems being A you have to use rare metals like platnum to make this work, and b, the fuel cells run at high temperatures and require some means to disapate all that heat.<p>But in theory, according to this one post I saw on the net, was you could run your powerbook for a day on a single bic butane lighter, and wouldn't have to lug around all those heavy batteries.
If I put my finger in this light socket, will it straigten out my hair?

josmith
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by josmith » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:24 pm

All the ev1's are being recalled by G.M. and going to the crusher.

Dean Huster
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Dean Huster » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:55 pm

Steven, I wasn't trying to trample on the idea of electric cars or alternative power, providing that the alternative power isn't an enthusiastic embracement of pseudo-science. I like the idea of a nice, silent, economical, efficient form of transportation that uses something other than fossil fuels. I'm just pointing out that the current technology as proclaimed by most magazines such as Popular Science are a bit outrageous in their claims of long ranges of cars, always looking just enough into the future to provide long ranges using technology that hasn't quite been developed. Most electric car enthusiasts that I've talked to have never considered all of the extra power required by operation in less than ideal conditions. Folks also don't realize that even though an electric car may seem inexpensive to operate, they don't also realize that the things can require a complete battery changeout every 2 or 3 years, which is an extraordinarily expensive proposition comparable to doing a complete engine and tranny rebuild or replacement in a conventional car every 2 to 3 years.<p>I also get a bit disgusted with the claims of low environmental impact. Sure, the cars will help keep the smog out of L.A., but as we all know, they'll just transfer it, albiet to a lesser amount, to the power generating sources. And those battery changeouts have a lot of potential for environmental contamination regardess of the recycling that is done. <p>I think that working on an electric scooter, bike or other smaller mode of transportation is the way to begin. I toyed with the idea of converting my 1975 Rabbit to electric, but then realized that the 10,000 pounds of batteries required weren't going to allow the thing to be very efficient or allow much cargo room. We can work out the efficiency, range, dynamic braking and other concepts on the little things and then transfer the technology to the bigger cars.<p>Dean
Dean Huster, Electronics Curmudgeon
Contributing Editor emeritus, "Q & A", of the former "Poptronics" magazine (formerly "Popular Electronics" and "Electronics Now" magazines).

R.I.P.

Dimbulb
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Dimbulb » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:16 pm

If everyone studied the electric bike instead of trying to compete with gas cars then where would the technology go ?<p>http://www.zapworld.com/product.asp?3=24

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Joseph
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by Joseph » Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:52 am

For something as big as a car, present hybrid technology concerning gasoline engines is OK because it does not add significant weight or size. I would also consider the possibility of a small gas turbine for the electric bicycle.<p>Oh yes, if I were to be happy with progress on the electric bicycle, then I could consider working with larger vehicles. Eventually, fuel cells should be improved and cheaper, but we still do need clean fusion power to produce enough fuel to power them.<p>For the idea I am now considering using the steam drive of a loudspeaker, the speaker could be held at the point of resonance of the unit by an external oscillator. Then, the added power from the steam would be extracted from the voice coil using a rectifier.<p>[ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Joseph Meisenhelder ]</p>

bwts
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by bwts » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:30 am

Check out the air powered car http://www.theaircar.com/ a reall viable sustainable solution developed by Guy Negre, capable of 110 Km/h and can cover a distance of 300 Km.<p>B)
"Nothing is true, all is permitted" - Hassan i Sabbah

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moe
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Re: Electric Vehicles

Post by moe » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:55 am

Eric
Take a look for a Sebring Vanguard Citicar they were made from 1975-1978 you can buy one for $250.00 and up. 48 volt with a GE motor 2 seater.
Moe

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