## where does the power go?

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terri
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### Re: where does the power go?

Ah, clear. Thank you both!
terri wd0edw

Chris Smith
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### Re: where does the power go?

Potentials are not work, or work done
Horse power is defined by the Pound/ foot as in torque,
Torque is defined by force times angle, not variable angle times force.<p>
From any first year Physics books.......<p>There are many colloquial meanings for the word “work”. <p>Because of this fact it becomes necessary for a scientists to state “Exactly” what he or she means by the word.<p>The meaning adopted universally in science is as follows:<p>The work [W] is done by a force [F] that acts on an object as the object moves through a small displacement [R]<p>COMPOUND Units for work are as follows: [note the word compound]<p>SI ........newton /meter
cgs.......... Dyne / meter
British ....pound/foot<p>Work has no direction there fore it is a scalar quantity.
************************<p>Definition of Power<p>POWER is defined to be the RATE at which work is being done.<p>That’s work done / time taken<p>Power = Force times velocity<p>Power = force times distance/ time<p>All of these relations are “equivalent”. <p>COMPOUND Unit systems for power are as follows:[note the word compound] <p>SI................ Joule / Second
cgs................erg/ second
British .........pound /foot / second<p>A common unit called the Horse power is used even though it belongs to none of these systems.

One HP is defined as 550 pound/ foot which makes it “EQUIVALENT” to 746 watts.<p>Work is sometimes expressed in terms of a unit called the “kilowatt [times] hour” or KWH.<p>It does not belong to our three basic unit systems and should therefore be used with caution.

Deal
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### Re: where does the power go?

Laughed at the nutty cranks about conversion units. Lost in the calculations was stone real life observation that the car slows down when Alt kicks in. I know all the alternator calculations because as energy stingy sailor have upgraded to high amp alt and know the math all the way down to the size of the pulleys (or sheaves). What was sidesteped and lost between the foot and the pounds is that energy has a price. Given escalating price of gasoline, we need our smart people in this thread to be turning our attention to urgency of our situation. Your car lights are not free energy wizardry switched by buttons. Every engine sucks calculations of foot pounds and cost in the intake and recalculates in terms of oil. Every facet of our present infrastructure has been built on energy of petroleum. We need our best minds to calculate the consequences of shrinking supply and increased world demand. I hope we can do this thing.

terri
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### Re: where does the power go?

"...energy has a price."<p>we know that energy has a price and that is why many threads along this line were started in this forum and what we are doing is kicking around the possibilities as well as the impossibilities which are usually promulgated by folks who don't necessarily understand what can and can't be done, even so with the viewpoint of some of us that what we think is impossible now may be possible tomorrow and even though some of us have a sense of humor and some of us have a distorted sense of correctness and get sidetracked on statics versus dynamics and I think if any one of us lived in a wind energy area we'd try to put up our own turbines but others would question how much energy it would take to mine the iron and coal to get the steel for the tower and how long it would take to amortize this cost and all of us know that the ultimate answer to the topic's title "where does the power go?" is that it goes to heat and some of us try to divert more and more of that heat to useful work and some of us have opined that the only real solution is to decrease demand by cutting the population of the world but still others point out that the big companies need an ever-expanding market so they're not for population control and junk 'n whatever.<p>And are you related to James Joyce?<p>[ September 20, 2005: Message edited by: terri ]</p>
terri wd0edw

Chris Smith
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### Re: where does the power go?

The environment [not oil] can provide all of our energy needs that we can use for the foreseeable future. <p> The only things holding us back here is the small thoughts, large greed, and a lack of imagination.<p> The suns power alone at todays conversions for solar, can produce 85 times the total energy consumption of the US. <p>And the only trade off here besides a national program is that we replace every roof surface in the country with solar panels. <p>But with our current Arab in the white house, and the small minds of Congress, hell will freeze over before any of this ever happens. <p>And after that Ice age comes to hell, the ocean currents will be off limits to power producing engines as well as possibly even the solar proposition

rshayes
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### Re: where does the power go?

Corn can be used to make alcohol, which can be used as a fuel. It also requires a great deal of care to grow (for example, pesticides).<p>The kudzu vine is an outright nuisance and practically impossible to stop growing, with or without human intervention. It apparently can grow about a foot a day. Commercial growth of the kudzu vine should be very cheap relative to corn.<p>The queation would be whether or not kudzu vine can be either processed into alcohol, some form of diesel fuel, or used directly to fuel powwer plants. Large scale cultivation might also start removing greenhouse gasses and converting them to hydrocarbons, forming a closed cycle, rather than the open cycle which occurs with fossil fuels.

Chris Smith
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### Re: where does the power go?

Will
My exams were in English, almost scottish from my teacher.<p>Yours Im sure were in American.

rshayes
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### Re: where does the power go?

The SAT and ACT tests are usually given in English in this country. I don't even know if there is a Gaelic version.<p>[ September 22, 2005: Message edited by: stephen ]</p>

terri
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### Re: where does the power go?

<p>[ September 22, 2005: Message edited by: terri ]</p>
terri wd0edw

Chris Smith
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### Re: where does the power go?

Your SATs are given in American, that much I am certain. And SATs and Degrees are not the same thing. <p>English is reserved for the UK and its colonies. <p>I dont know any SATs in this country that spell these words,..... Tyre, Colour, Aluminium, do you?

Newz2000
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### Re: where does the power go?

If this conversation is going to continue, can someone please post it under a new topic? I'm sad to see my name associated with this and I'm tired of getting all of the e-mails saying someone replied to my message.<p>If, by chance, we get back onto the subject of the original question (what was it again?) then go ahead and resume posting to this thread, but as for (lbs|foot)*(foot|lbs) and what language was used on standardized tests, please start a new topic.

Will
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### Re: where does the power go?

Chris (LOL), As part of your continuing English and engineering Units lessons - (i) You use a capital 'S' with Scottish (ii) if you choose to condense 'I am ' into 'I'm' then you have to use the apostrophe as shown.
How much cash do you have to bet that my exams were in American ?
BB

rshayes
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### Re: where does the power go?

Chris Smith
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### Re: where does the power go?

No Will, everything in English is optional.
Caps, apostrophe, comma, etc.
And they even vary from continent to continent.
There are no rules stipulating the mandatory use of any of these accessories. <p>Engineering doesn’t have this luxury because when you change one parameter off the standard, you change all the other factors that make up the “compound unit”. <p>Try changing one of the units in this equation and see what happens to the others. <p>E=Mc squared.<p>If E is = to one, and it is = to a mass of one, and the constant doubles from 2 to 4, the E doesn’t double but quadruples, all from a simple change in one part of the equation. <p>Same goes for the Pound V.S. the Foot in the compound unit called a HP.<p>Substitute one for the other and it is no longer equal.

Robert Reed
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### Re: where does the power go?

Stephan Good post , but I have one minor picking point. That being individual cell voltage is 2.1 volts per cell, Thereby producing 12.6 Volts for a 6 cell battery. I have never seen a fully charged battery in good condition vary from this voltage. 13. 2 volts is a general standard for bench testing mobile electronic equiptment (the mid point between battery voltage and charging voltage). It is also the level usually chosen for long term trickle chargers.

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