Flourescent bulbs

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Robert Reed
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Robert Reed » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:34 pm

Hacklesup
Unfortunaty--no air conditionig, which is probably why I have higher than normal humidity. Have experienced the same garage problem in the winter. I have always bought the $0.99 bulbs thinking I saved a ton of money, now after reading these replys, I am wondering if this may be the root of all my problems.

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Chris Smith
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Chris Smith » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:02 pm

Heater failure is always a biggy, but most heater failures occur because of bad wiring, cheap fixtures, cheaper balasts, and bad grounds that make them flicker, hence the Catch 22 of modern fluros?

Robert Reed
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Robert Reed » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:23 pm

Hi quality wiring I have.
Hi quality grounds I have.
Hi quality fixtures and ballasts-I probably dont have.
Mabe this is why some fixtures cost $8.00 and similar looking ones cost $30.00.
Mine were priced closer to the $8.00 end

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dacflyer
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by dacflyer » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:37 pm

i had many problems with them 10.00 shop lites too
they had energy saver ballast in them..they never got as bright as a hi quality ballast.
i changed the ballast and never had a problem again...and the ballast was recycled :D

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Chris Smith
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Chris Smith » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:42 pm

30 dollar ballasts last longer than 3 dollar ones, especially for not burning out the heater in the ends, of one dollar tubes! <p>But, 60 dollar modern electronic ballasts, especially color correction and dimmer types, do even better! <p>Some of my early experiments in the 80s would bring back to life “Dead Tubes” where the heaters were black, burnt out or useless, and I could run these tubes for years more at a time because of the lack of need for the heater assembly, in it self, due to HF HV pulses.<p>[ July 25, 2005: Message edited by: Chris Smith ]</p>

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Edd
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Edd » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:34 pm

Re in general:<p>:)

Image


ADDENDA: Seems like that schema sometime takes a bit longer time to download to the text of the post...since it was routed via a cz sourcing.<p>[ July 27, 2005: Message edited by: Edd Whatley ]</p>

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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by peter-f » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:05 am

Nice info, Edd... and good thread, guys...<p>Next related Question:
RF interference often comes from ballasts (especially the old types) that can be cured with an R/C circuit (for the novice, add a resistor and capacitor).
How do you cure RF noise with electronic ballasts... more specifically, do you risk damaging the unit, or is the R/C solution benign?<p>Thanks in advance!

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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Will » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:57 am

Thanks Edd, I've got it now - I missed it in November - I was in Sapin about that time. Are you certain about the necessary voltage spike ? I can see that, if the current flow through the ballast choke is interrupted it will cause a spike in accordance with Lenz' Law - but what if the break occurs at the moment of zero current, which it would inevitably do over the course of time ?
I ask this because I remember that, some 30 plus years ago, I wanted to install a fluorescent in a room I built in m y attic, I had the fluoro tube fitting and an inductor/capacitor ballast but no starter lmap assembly - So, I installed in the wall a normal two unit light switch box but replaced one of the switches with a push button which shorted to two non-,mains contact ends of the two heaters. To switch on I simply put the switch to the ON position then pressed the push button monentarily. It always worked.
thanks again
BB

Robert Reed
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Robert Reed » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:54 pm

Edd
WOW!! Talk about informative replys, this has to be the mother of all. On thing I did not mention in my orig. post, was that when a lamp failed to light and still turned on,by switching adjacent fixtures (fan motors, other flouros,etc.) on and off and on the same circuit run, sometimes the lamp would start. I assumed this was from the inductive transient spike of these devices being impressed across the offending lamp and "kick starting " it to light up. This was how I formed my impression that flouros were started solely by ballast inductive spike. I had no idea of the relative complexity of these devices. Its like Jerry Lee Lewis put it "Theres a whole lot of Shakin' Goin on, Goin on----".Your explanation agreed with Chris's former reply and then greatly expanded on it -Quite thorough and leaving little room for questions. With all the info I have received on this post, I now feel like an "expert" on the subject. Thank you all, and I have explored all of your advice.Here are the results of that:
Black spots at end of tube-replaced problem cured
Contamination of socket/pin-cleaned problem cured
Wiring and ACV - All good no problem here
Super cheap bulbs-replaced problem cured
In short, when it came to problems--I had it all!
I am in the early stages of designing my next home and one thing it won't have - Cheap Flouros and Fixtures!

Al Warner
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Al Warner » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:17 pm

dacflyer- :eek: Connecting the neutral to ground at the fixture is illegal (violates the National Electrical Code and most state and municipal electrical codes). This is a potentially dangerous/lethal practice. That's why it is illegal. The neutral and ground are only allowed to be connected together at specific points in any electrical system. In the typical home or garage that is at the main service panels. Making a connection between the neutral and ground anywhere downstream from this point is usually illegal.<p>I would suggest you contact a qualified electrician to identify and fix your problem.<p>Al<p>[ July 27, 2005: Message edited by: Al Warner ]<p>[ July 27, 2005: Message edited by: Al Warner ]</p>

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Chris Smith
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Chris Smith » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:09 pm

Peter-F<p>Hopefully the company that built the HF unit was supposed to also do “Some” RF work on the box?<p> However like in Hollywood, almost no RF is allowed into a mixing Room. <p>Hence the usage of Variacs over light dimmers for the most part. <p>However, like all noise circuits you have to start at the beginning.<p> Shield the ballast unit using lots crude foil to a good earth etc, to see if its RF is into the Air waves or not, and if not then line conditioners, also RF foil shielded to earth to stop any leaks there also.<p> You must determine if its line or air leaks, and then deal with them accordingly. <p>Each “type” of RF has a different way of quenching them.

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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Robert Reed » Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:02 pm

As long as we are beginning to deal with ancilliary questions (is that right ?).I have one final one. What is the best way to dispose of long flouros for trash pickup? I usually bundle them up in paper, tape it and then tap with hammer to bite size length. What a pain!!

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Chris Smith
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Chris Smith » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:32 pm

Dont inhale at the same time?<p>I use them for target practice, smaller than a rabbit at 100 yards, but a little taller?

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Edd
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Edd » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:57 pm

So has it been humid enough to experience any further problems to date ?<p>Just dealing solely with your last post , that’s just about the way I do lamps. Not having any special handling on wastes of this nature in my town.
Still having a reserve of some of those “Paper or Plastic?” bags…I chose paper. I’ll take one of the tall paper bags and open it wide and fold over the top 2 in to assure its retaining its opened position.
Then I head for the back yard with the bag and defunct tubes in tow, plop the bag down at the yards DOWNWIND position, if there happens to be any. Then take a tube and insert it within the opened bag , pressed against its right side of the bag, having a hammer, tiretool, etc in the right hand ready to smash into the bags OUTSIDE to smash the bottom 2-3 in
of the tube that is on the bags inside. Just prior to the smashing action, take in a deep breath to be held (or a use a dampened face mask) while you feed down the tube with multiple whacks, where it can disappear as fast as a tree limb going into a shredder. Turn your head and recoup your breath and move a distance upwind and repeat for the other tubes. I can do a bag of 6 of the long 96 in tubes in just a Jumping Jack Flash. Then roll the bag around the cluster of pieces and a final gradual stepping upon them will further decrease the volume if required. A plastic bag around the mass precludes the leaking of any phosphors powder. My bag then goes into a Dumpster, where a garbage mans handling is never required.<p>73’s de Edd
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Robert Reed
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Re: Flourescent bulbs

Post by Robert Reed » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:41 pm

Chris
I used to do it that way,but my neighbor started complaining about all the glass in the middle of his back yard.
Edd
All problems taken care of while humidity was still peaked. Also we have got to find a better way.

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