Making hydrogen from water & DC

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Mike6158
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by Mike6158 » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:04 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>How could you explain the distillation tower in a Crude unit at a refinery? Or the Reflux used in the tower?<hr></blockquote><p>The laws of physics work pretty well... I've never tried smoke and mirrors... that might work too :roll:
"If the nucleus of a sodium atom were the size of a golf ball, the outermost electrons would lie 2 miles away. Atoms, like galaxies, are cathedrals of cavernous space. Matter is energy."

Bernius1
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by Bernius1 » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:53 am

OK . Then here's a real question, unlike slingshot's whimsical rhetoric;<p>Do you know how many real technologies were PREDICTED BY MATHEMATICS, based on physics principles, before they ever existed ? Lasers & Nuclear fission are two, and I believe the transistor also.<p>So much for a shot in the dark !!!!!!
Can't we end all posts with a comical quip?

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dacflyer
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by dacflyer » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:02 pm

WOW WHAT A RECORD...LETS GO FOR 9 PAGES :D

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Chris Smith
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by Chris Smith » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:49 pm

So much for a "sling shot" in the dark?

The hook has been set, the fish nibbled off the bait, and the fool fisherman, awaits? <p>Like the crab I have eaten over the many years,..., lets draw it up,..... and play with it for a while, before we dip it in the hot sauce and lemmon?

rusticroots
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by rusticroots » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:32 am

Looking forward to next year Sling Shot. <p>
"ONLY PHOTONS whose energy is EQUAL to or GREATER than the BAND GAP CELL MATERIAL can FREE AN ELECTRON." <p>Sillies, don't you know that the entire electromagnetic spectrum contains the hamonic frequencies of all matter and it's the interaction which creates and breaks the bonds. <p>Lesson Today - Not found in Physics Books - <p>---When you FORCE Nature she makes you pays handsomely for raping her that way.<p>---Nature pays you back handsomely for
leading her by the hand and treating her like a lady.

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philba
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by philba » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:57 am

♫ this is the thread that never ends
it just goes on and on my friends ...♫

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dr_when
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by dr_when » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:23 pm

You have to apply Fudds First Law of Opposition..."If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"<p>Firesign Theatre
"Who is John Galt?"

slingshot
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by slingshot » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:23 pm

Just an update. Fabrication shops that use Laser cutters for metals use the concept of energizing Photons to then excite electrons in molecules.<p>When one energizes a photon a very small amount of electric energy is required to break the coulomb bond holding the atoms in a molecule.<p>Study Light and the uses of photons. There are some who are involved in that.<p>wish I were a betting man then I would make book on a winning proposition that will change your concepts of chemical reactions.<p>To turn all of oil into Hydrogen is possible. The Hydrocracker system used in most large refineries is the front end of a full Hydrogen system.<p>The problem is one would not then produce the Chemicals necessary for any industrial society to continue.<p>What must be done is to produce electricity in such large quantities that automobiles and trucks can be operated without using natural gas
or oil derivatives. Using electric automobiles will then free up crude oil to be used to produce the Chemicals and a few of the fuels needed for Aircraft and large ships.<p>The production of of free electrons by energizing electrons holding Hydrogen to Oxygen will allow for the free electrons to be 'harvested' as electricity.<p>Debunk if you must, but I am not the one producing the bunk.

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Chris Smith
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by Chris Smith » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:19 pm

“When one energizes a photon a very small amount of electric energy is required to break the coulomb bond holding the atoms in a molecule.<p>Study Light and the uses of photons. There are some who are involved in that"<p>
This is what we call in the photonic industry, a crock of shit. <p>The energy to run a laser is anything but small. <p>A simple HeNe laser is running at 1100 to 2000 volts, at several amps input and the energy out put is only five milii watts of power.

A industry laser such as a Yag laser is running at 220 volts in, mega amps in the 20 to 40 amp range, and lots of cooling which also consumes lots of energy. And you mmight get back 20 watts or more if your lucky.<p>So your statement of a “very small amount” is much like the rest of your posts, uneducated, ignorant, and full of it

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jollyrgr
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by jollyrgr » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:25 am

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by slingshot:
What must be done is to produce electricity in such large quantities that automobiles and trucks can be operated without using natural gas
or oil derivatives. Using electric automobiles will then free up crude oil to be used to produce the Chemicals and a few of the fuels needed for Aircraft and large ships.
<hr></blockquote><p>I don't recall the exact numbers used to make the calculations. But in school we calculated the energy needed to replace half the cars used on a daily basis with electric cars. I'm not talking hybrids, I'm talking about a car you recharge from the grid. To replace just half the cars used for the "daily drive" would require the entire electrical grid. In other words we would need to DOUBLE the existing grid in the USA; transmission towers, power plants, fuel delivery system, etc. to supply the power to rechage the cars! Our electrical system cannot handle hot spells during the summer when air conditioning demands are high. Do you expect it to handle cars as well?<p>The "electric car" is NOT the answer. I believe the answer lies in biofuels. Grow plants such as corn and soybeans. Turn their biomass into gasoline. Sound impossible? It is already being done; the fuel is called E85. This is a fuel made with 85 percent ethanol 15 percent gasoline. The beauty of this is that plant waste products can be turned into ethanol. The infrastructure for fuel delivery to the consumer is already in place. The vehicles that use this type of fuel are the ones you see on the road right now. There is no major change in the way things would be. The only difference would be instead of taking crude oil to a refinery and getting gasoline (and other products out) you would bring in plant waste and get ethanol out. Mixing gasoline with ethanol is being done right now. <p>The process exist but it is not on a large enough scale. You could pay farmers to actually grow crops (instead of the government paying them to grow nothing). And the money would be going to American farmers instead of middle east sheiks. Think of it as a form of solar powier. <p>GM, Ford, and many other companies already produce cars that run on E85. And I'm not talking about just some small roller skate vehicle like you find with electric cars; these are full sized cars and even SUVs like the Suburban, Explorer, and Dodge RAM pickups. See a list here: http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php<p>Electric cars are not the way yet. Maybe the battery techology will be there someday. But there will still be a "tailpipe" somewhere. Or there will be nuclear waste to dispose of.
No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. But billions of electrons, photons, and electromagnetic waves were terribly inconvenienced!

peter-f
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by peter-f » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:49 pm

Ethanol is a 'promise' full of unspoken drawbacks:
... the fertilizers to grow such crops rely on the petrochemicals as feedstock.
... the farmland used to grow these crops pollutes the water downstream. (This also includes topsoil runoff).
... the tailpipe pollutants (in quantities) are not sufficiently studied to 'know' the full effect of such a 'conversion'<p>Still, Brazil is using Sugar as the crop for ethanol feedstock, and it (Brazil) may have some of the 'problems' outlined above to suggest real solutions.

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Chris Smith
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by Chris Smith » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:36 pm

Brazil has done a sugar cane to diesel conversion many years back, and it is promising. <p>A small additive is used to convert the alcohol to diesel, invented at UCB California, and as long as petrochemicals are not required to grow the crop en mass, but instead they use crop rotation and other natural fertilization processes, plus conservation,.... it is very promising. <p>We could solve any problems we encounter if we could only get realistic on conservation and other dire issues. <p>Wasting Two gallons of gas to pick up a gallon of milk at the 711, just wont do any more. <p>We have no problems regulating the fat in burgers, but we cant regulate gluttony at the pump? <p>One day we will wake up?

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jwax
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by jwax » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:50 pm

I hear you there! E85 has way more positives going for it than perceived negatives.
However, I got this response from Citgo when asked about a distributor of E85 here in New York State-
"CITGO will not likely be supplying a M85 fuel in the foreseeable future. This fuel is a specialty fuel with limited acceptability."
Sherry Compton
Customer Service Manager-NE Region
Email: [email protected]
1/800-423-8434 (at dial tone, dial 6830)
Fax: 918-497-2560
As long as big oil sells big oil, they're not interested in alternatives.
Kind of like telling the milkman you bought a cow.
:(

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sofaspud
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by sofaspud » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:23 pm

Interesting, isn't it, that gasoline prices are on the way up again and this topic is revived?<p>I believe in the power of markets.

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Chris Smith
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Re: Making hydrogen from water & DC

Post by Chris Smith » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:48 pm

The subject was never gas prices, but rather alternatives ideas. <p>Realistic ones, ones that do not contain fantasy, ignorance, or suburban housewive myths. <p>Just science, all day, every day.<p>Just like “boiler plate” nuclear technology, proven for three decades now.<p>We can not do anything until we face reality, and that reality must contain “no gluttony” or as its known world wide, .......we must conserve.

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