Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

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Janitor Tzap
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by Janitor Tzap » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:57 am

MrAl wrote:Janitor:
That case looks nice, but im not sure if i want to put out the bucks for it.
Thanks for the info about the fans, i'll have to use that info when i make a choice eventually.
I didn't mean for you to buy it.
But to use it as an example of where the best spots for mounting the fans would be. :D
Right now i am divided between the 120mm fans and the 250mm fans. The 120mm would be
easier to install and are a lot cheaper too.
Yeah, the 120mm fans are cheaper. :)
What am i up to? I figured if i use enough fans to cool the motherboard, CPU and hard drives
down to below absolute zero time would reverse and i would be able to recover some of the
files i lost over the years :smile: Just as long as none of the girlfriends come back as well :smile: :smile:

You were right about the fan card fan, i was thinking that maybe a 250mm fan would eliminate the need for that seriously.
Computer cases really haven't changed that much in the last 30 years.
Thus, there is some standardization of how cards and boards install into a case.
But this causes the problem of heat building up inside the enclosure, by all the devices that are giving off heat.
This is making some manufacturers redesign the enclosure.
Here's one I found.
http://www.nanosys1.com/cs-an-skeleton.html


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reloadron
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by reloadron » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:47 pm

For computer enthusiast modifying (modding) the cases has been a long time tradition which has included adding fans to the case side panels. Any number of the methods mentioned here work just fine depending on the tools one has available. Some cases come with side fans as well as a recent addition of top mounted exhaust fans (blow holes). I will say that Janitor Tzap's link to the "Antec Skeleton Open Air ATX Case (NO Power Supply)" makes me wonder if Antec is attempting to redefine ugly?

Awhile back I went through the effort of instrumenting a case of a large workstation computer. I placed 4 thermocouples in the thing and monitored ait inlet temperature (ambient air temp), case exhaust temperature, PSU air inlet temperature and finally PSU exhaust temperature. I collected all sorts of temperature data under assorted conditions.

Before adding fans to aid the airflow in a case it is wise to see if there really is a problem. Like looking at how the case is set up and how many fans it has. Does the wiring in the case inhibit air flow? How many inlet and exhaust fans does the case have? The list of variables goes on and on.

I have seen cases built from scratch by modders including a case fabricated from would you believe ice cream bar sticks and glue.

Ron

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MrAl
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by MrAl » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:30 am

Hi again,


That Antec case is interesting but yeah it's ugly. I also dont like the MoBo being
exposed too much in case something drops on the case. I also like a case with
nothing on top of it so i can stack stuff on top of the case like CD's, manuals, etc.
I saw some with USB ports on top and dont like that either.

Yeah i have considered the 'need' for fans and i can probably get away withiout
any additional fans but i would like to cool the hard drive a bit more and also
the CPU when it's running all four cores. I guess i am after some cooling at least
just to see what more fans would really do. The 250mm fans would really do
the trick but i also worry about weakening the side panel, and might have to
sturdy it up with some rails bolted on.
If not anything else it's interesting.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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Janitor Tzap
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by Janitor Tzap » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:57 am

Hard drive cooling fan huh........
Ok, what about something like these.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CEUQ8gIwBQ#
I've got similar style in my computers.
And they work great. :grin:

Cool the CPU down more.........
Try some vent tubing going from the outside of the case to the CPU Fan.
Like this stuff.
http://coolpc.com/Coolerguys-Flexible-V ... JEDHKA.htm

One of my computer cases came with a vent tube for fitting over the CPU.
But was designed for a different main board, then what I had.{Doh!}
Thus, I had to scrap that idea, and put in another case fan.
Also, I raised the case up an inch from the floor.
So cool air could be drawn in from vent holes on the bottom of the case.


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reloadron
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by reloadron » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:14 pm

I have used a few of the varieties that Janitor Tzap linked to and they all seem to work fine. However, if the drives fit into a cage the cage will typically hold 3 hard drives. When using cooling that sinks on top of the HDD this may limit the number of hard drives that can be placed in the cage. A good case with cages will typically have an 80mm fan on the cage forward of the drives and force ambient air over (around) the drives. I have also used several little gizmos with 3 tiny fans that actually replace a blank in the case front forward of the HDDs, thoose work well too.

Since what you want is airflow over the drives and most cases are well vented forward of the drives a few good exhaust fans can get things done. I figure the more air you blow out of the case (rear or top) the more air that is drawn in the front. Assuming case front ventilation the intake ambient air will cross over the HDDs removing heat.

Ron

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MrAl
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by MrAl » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:27 am

Hi again,


Janitor:
That does look like a nice hard drive cooler. Right now i am using one made by Thermaltake, and it's
pretty nice too with a larger fan. It does cool the hard drive, but i am looking for super cooling power
now that's why i considered a fan to blow from the outside of the case right on the hard drive bays.
The fan on there now should add to the cooling still, but now it will have fresh air from the outside
of the case to work with rather than warm air inside the case.

I have chosen 120mm fan with 90CFM which is pretty nice, and that will be the first install. That will
be mostly for the hard drive bays though, but i figure if that isnt too hard to install then maybe later
i'll go with either another 120mm fan or bite the bullet and get a full size 250mm fan for the MoBo
and graphics. Either way i think i'll beat the heat and wont have to buy a full case (i dont feel like
uninstalling the MoBo and installing it again anyway as i just did that two times recently ha ha).

Thanks for the tip about the more fan blades too, that helped in making the decision as i got with
with 9 blades instead of the usual 7.
LEDs vs Bulbs, LEDs are winning.

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Janitor Tzap
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by Janitor Tzap » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:24 am

Good MrAl,
I hope that works out for you. :)
reloadron wrote:Before adding fans to aid the airflow in a case it is wise to see if there really is a problem. Like looking at how the case is set up and how many fans it has. Does the wiring in the case inhibit air flow? How many inlet and exhaust fans does the case have? The list of variables goes on and on.
Some years back...
I remember watching a smoke test on a computer case, with the side panel replaced with plexiglass.
Thus, you could watch how the air was moving through the case.
It was helpful in that it showed the zones inside the case that had the least amount of air move.
I wonder if it's still out on the web somewhere.
I have seen cases built from scratch by modders including a case fabricated from would you believe ice cream bar sticks and glue.

Ron
Hehe....
Yeah, I saw that.
Here's some Star Wars mods.
Image
Image
Image
Image


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reloadron
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by reloadron » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:25 pm

I caught that smoke test of a case. Generally they use fog from a theater fog machine but the results are interesting. Many of those case demos are done by case manufacturers. Smoke or fog aside many videos of cases, PSUs and other hardware marketed remind me of Scrooge in A Christmas Carol. Scrooge goes to see his partner Jacob Marley on his death bed. He discovers the man outside Jacob's room is the undertaker waiting. Scrooge makes a comment to the effect of "you don't let grass grow under your feet", to which the undertaker replies "Tis a highly competitive business".

Right now in one of my forums there is a guy beginning to build a case from a HD engine block, that is HD as in Harley Davidson. He has some milling and drilling ahead of him.

Overall cooling is obviously important and that cooling needs good airflow through the case. Air in and air out. I beat that up when I instrumented a few cases with thermocouples. Really gets into some interesting stuff too. :smile:

Ron

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Janitor Tzap
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by Janitor Tzap » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:19 pm

reloadron wrote:Right now in one of my forums there is a guy beginning to build a case from a HD engine block, that is HD as in Harley Davidson. He has some milling and drilling ahead of him.
Hmm.....
I hope the engine block is a damaged one.
{And even if it is damaged, there are engine rebuilders that would want it.}
I wonder if he's going to use it for heatsinking as well as the enclosure? :P
Overall cooling is obviously important and that cooling needs good airflow through the case. Air in and air out. I beat that up when I instrumented a few cases with thermocouples. Really gets into some interesting stuff too. :smile:

Ron
Agreed. :grin:


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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by reloadron » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:33 pm

This thread in another forum has the beginnings of the HD custom case mod. Also this thread in another forum has threads with all sorts of case mods and builds. One of the more recent wood cases is pretty cool. There really is no limit depending on imagination as to what a case can be or how it gets cooled. Some are really ingenious and some in my humble opinion just plain suck but beauty I guess is in the eye of the beholder.

Heck, I thought a great improvement in case design was going from beige to gray and then black. :smile: I still have a few new in box old horizontal desktop cases given to me by a friend.

Ron

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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by Janitor Tzap » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:26 pm

reloadron wrote:This thread in another forum has the beginnings of the HD custom case mod. Also this thread in another forum has threads with all sorts of case mods and builds. One of the more recent wood cases is pretty cool. There really is no limit depending on imagination as to what a case can be or how it gets cooled. Some are really ingenious and some in my humble opinion just plain suck but beauty I guess is in the eye of the beholder.
Yeah, that Harley Davidson Engine Case Mod is going to be interesting. :smile:
Heck, I thought a great improvement in case design was going from beige to gray and then black. :smile: I still have a few new in box old horizontal desktop cases given to me by a friend.

Ron
Are you talking about this kind of case?
Image

Or, do you mean this type?
Image
Because this is a Mini-Tower Case.

***[Rant]***
I am some what confused by how drive manufacturers think.
Some 25 years ago black was the standard color that floppy, CD-ROM, and even Hard drives came in.
You wanted one in white, beige, or gray. You'd half too pay more.
Some 15 years ago white, or beige was the standard color for the drives.
And if you wanted one in black, it would cost you more.
Now it has switched back too black as the standard color for drives.
But, some drive manufacturers are including different color face plates to go with the drive.
Which of course costs more then the standard black drive. :roll:
***[/Rant]***


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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by reloadron » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:06 am

The first ones. I have a friend in RI who has a business doing high level encryption. Years ago they developed a system that used a PC case or was housed in a PC case. His best deal when he needed like a few hundred was to buy 600 of the things. I guess you could buy 600 direct from China for what 200 would cost. Last time I saw him he showed me this room and floor to ceiling he had these things stacked, about 400 cases. It was really funny. He couldn't give them away as he was offering them to schools etc. He tossed a few in our Jeep so they traveled back here with us. Pretty bare bones cases and I have no clue if I'll ever use them for anything. I would have more but the wife seemed to have issues with me packing "junk" in her already loaded Jeep while we were on vacation. :)

Ron

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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by Janitor Tzap » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:35 pm

reloadron wrote:The first ones. I have a friend in RI who has a business doing high level encryption. Years ago they developed a system that used a PC case or was housed in a PC case. His best deal when he needed like a few hundred was to buy 600 of the things. I guess you could buy 600 direct from China for what 200 would cost. Last time I saw him he showed me this room and floor to ceiling he had these things stacked, about 400 cases. It was really funny. He couldn't give them away as he was offering them to schools etc. He tossed a few in our Jeep so they traveled back here with us. Pretty bare bones cases and I have no clue if I'll ever use them for anything. I would have more but the wife seemed to have issues with me packing "junk" in her already loaded Jeep while we were on vacation. :)

Ron
Hehe.....
Yeah, I was working with a person building up or repairing or modifying computers in the late 80's and into the mid 90's.
He was always finding these kind of deals, would buy up pallets of older computers.
We'd would go through, and clean up and get them running.
Then he'd sell them off to some school in Mexico, or Brazil.

I think the strangest mod we did was on a bunch of SANYO luggable computers.
We removed the old 8088 mother board, installed these mini 386SX33 boards.
Installed 100Meg hard drive, 28.8baud modem, 1.2Meg & 1.44Meg Floppies, CGA Monitor, with a 10-base T Lan card.
Turn out rather nice I thought. :)


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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by MrAl » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:26 pm

Wow, been years since i heard the phrase "CGA monitor" ha ha.
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Re: Best way to make very large hole in cabinet

Post by frhrwa » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:36 pm

a greenlee punch or if you have a machine shop available, they shouldn't charge much to punch a hole for you.. maybe even a high school or college Metals Tech lab.. they probably have a hydraulic punch.. any fabrication shop should have a good punch.. where are you located, I know a great fab shop in Salem Oregon that has all that stuff.. Braka Industries.. Talk to Nick.. if your near there.. tell him Wayne sent you.. well, forget that.. I see your in New Jersey.. but, you have thousands of fabrication shops and metal shops back there!.. check them out..
JESUS”…… don’t leave EARTH without HIM!

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