Will cars ever run on pressurized air?
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positronicle
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Chris Smith
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Great joke, now sell it to the 8th grade class.
Like I said what you know about physics would fit in a teaspoon.
Not even close, you have to completely leave the turbine design behind, way to wasteful for the use at hand. At least do enough research to be able to comment(intelligently)on what is actually being discussed. For the 10th time, "they are NOT using any kind of turbine in their design.
I dont care what your wonderland is using, the piston engine doesnt even come close to the turbine.
They have been using compressed air turbines for half a century now. [where there is energy available]
And they are far more efficient than any piston engine any day.
Do try to keep up with at least the last century, I realize Alice is trying real hard to win with out that formal education, but all your doing is dropping that yellow stuff into the wind with your mouth wide open.
Its amusing at best. Your worse than a stubborn child, your just plain ignorant.
Like I said what you know about physics would fit in a teaspoon.
Not even close, you have to completely leave the turbine design behind, way to wasteful for the use at hand. At least do enough research to be able to comment(intelligently)on what is actually being discussed. For the 10th time, "they are NOT using any kind of turbine in their design.
I dont care what your wonderland is using, the piston engine doesnt even come close to the turbine.
They have been using compressed air turbines for half a century now. [where there is energy available]
And they are far more efficient than any piston engine any day.
Do try to keep up with at least the last century, I realize Alice is trying real hard to win with out that formal education, but all your doing is dropping that yellow stuff into the wind with your mouth wide open.
Its amusing at best. Your worse than a stubborn child, your just plain ignorant.
"The web is free to look at and buy into. "
So is that a No, you did not look at the links. These were not some slight of hand youtube fakeouts like the levitating card trick, they were video clips from reputable television shows. Several unconnected sources saying the same thing.
"Often around here is it your bible."
Not a bible but a very handy reference which when used properly can be very authoratative. Are you saying that CNN, the Science channel, the discovery channel reporters are all taken in by a hoax. I do admit that TV science reporters are a bit unbalanced and prone to hype but they do try to avoid cold fusion stories. This forum is on the internet, its only natural to use it to support ones views. Most people know better than to be literalists when it comes to the net.
You tell us to do the math but you offer only Qualatative opinions. I don't and doubt most members here have the math skills to fairly rank the efficeincy of different motor and fuel types. If you don't believe me, go to alt.sci.physics and they will show you a technical ass kicking like no other. Hand waving guesses about % this and that is not quantatative anything.
All anyone is trying to say is that is would be possible to operate compressed air powered vehicles in limited circumstances. Those circumstances requiring at least an infrastructure for obtaining a refill and a limited range to operate. The applications descrived in the science channel clip were things like taxi, warehouse and local city transport.
Its not going to change the world and may not even become popular but it does seem like it could get me to and from work with a bit to spare for the grocery store. Certainly not a trip to Mono lake but thats what I got a 4x4 for.
Not that I, not a fan of gas-electric hybrids, I am so close to buying an Escape Hybrid. Just need a little more for the downpayment.
So is that a No, you did not look at the links. These were not some slight of hand youtube fakeouts like the levitating card trick, they were video clips from reputable television shows. Several unconnected sources saying the same thing.
"Often around here is it your bible."
Not a bible but a very handy reference which when used properly can be very authoratative. Are you saying that CNN, the Science channel, the discovery channel reporters are all taken in by a hoax. I do admit that TV science reporters are a bit unbalanced and prone to hype but they do try to avoid cold fusion stories. This forum is on the internet, its only natural to use it to support ones views. Most people know better than to be literalists when it comes to the net.
You tell us to do the math but you offer only Qualatative opinions. I don't and doubt most members here have the math skills to fairly rank the efficeincy of different motor and fuel types. If you don't believe me, go to alt.sci.physics and they will show you a technical ass kicking like no other. Hand waving guesses about % this and that is not quantatative anything.
All anyone is trying to say is that is would be possible to operate compressed air powered vehicles in limited circumstances. Those circumstances requiring at least an infrastructure for obtaining a refill and a limited range to operate. The applications descrived in the science channel clip were things like taxi, warehouse and local city transport.
Its not going to change the world and may not even become popular but it does seem like it could get me to and from work with a bit to spare for the grocery store. Certainly not a trip to Mono lake but thats what I got a 4x4 for.
Not that I, not a fan of gas-electric hybrids, I am so close to buying an Escape Hybrid. Just need a little more for the downpayment.
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Chris Smith
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I have said stop peeing in our ear and do the math.
Its simple, yet there are no takers.
I know unlike every one here so far reporting back, what a bottle of air contains as far as energy.
And I know how far it will propel you, and at what cost.
Nothing on the web will be changing that because it is one of the laws of physics.
Unlike every one here I have done the math.
Unlike every one here I have sat through the classes describing why compressed air is novel, but why it cant contain any real milage within it weight costrictions and size restrictions. Simple laws of physics, ones you cant change even if your name is GW with all of pappys money.
Unlike some here I don’t need to fool my self with fluff that already works for a short while and cost a fortune to run.
I’ll leave that up to those who are just too lazy to learn the realities of the physical world.
There is a fool born every day and If you confuse what works with how long and at what cost it works for, you have a blockage in your ears.
I know far better ways to waste energy and making a compressed air car just isn’t up their on the fantasy list of wasteful practices.
Nothing you do or say will change the laws of physics, so just sit down and figure out the math so you too can understand why a compressed air is just a waste of time and resources.
Does it work? Yes, for the last 100 years just fine.
How much does it cost to run,....Its measured in numbers that only Enron can afford to waste.
Its easier to squeeze blood out of a turnip than to get more energy out of a tank of air when there is no more energy to be had.
Its simple, yet there are no takers.
I know unlike every one here so far reporting back, what a bottle of air contains as far as energy.
And I know how far it will propel you, and at what cost.
Nothing on the web will be changing that because it is one of the laws of physics.
Unlike every one here I have done the math.
Unlike every one here I have sat through the classes describing why compressed air is novel, but why it cant contain any real milage within it weight costrictions and size restrictions. Simple laws of physics, ones you cant change even if your name is GW with all of pappys money.
Unlike some here I don’t need to fool my self with fluff that already works for a short while and cost a fortune to run.
I’ll leave that up to those who are just too lazy to learn the realities of the physical world.
There is a fool born every day and If you confuse what works with how long and at what cost it works for, you have a blockage in your ears.
I know far better ways to waste energy and making a compressed air car just isn’t up their on the fantasy list of wasteful practices.
Nothing you do or say will change the laws of physics, so just sit down and figure out the math so you too can understand why a compressed air is just a waste of time and resources.
Does it work? Yes, for the last 100 years just fine.
How much does it cost to run,....Its measured in numbers that only Enron can afford to waste.
Its easier to squeeze blood out of a turnip than to get more energy out of a tank of air when there is no more energy to be had.
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positronicle
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Chris Smith
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- Location: Bieber Ca.
Im sorry, you forgot your point?
PS....Quoting me isn’t helping your case one bit.
Making quotes like this......
Author positronicle
Posted: 08 Jun 2007 08:15 PM Post subject:
Air pressure, not heat, drives the internal combustion engine.
.......wont be digging you out of the hole you dug your self any time soon either.
It flies in the face of every physics book out there and still, you moan and grown and say "I Know" as if that makes everything all right?
In what wonderland did you attend class?
And still you deflect so you don’t have to do the math.
Real mature of you.
Let me know when they pull your fingernails out and your ready to get serious, along with the math.
The best you have done so far is show to the world in print, your real education as well as semantics and dodging the bullet.
A small yawn at best.
PS....Quoting me isn’t helping your case one bit.
Making quotes like this......
Author positronicle
Posted: 08 Jun 2007 08:15 PM Post subject:
Air pressure, not heat, drives the internal combustion engine.
.......wont be digging you out of the hole you dug your self any time soon either.
It flies in the face of every physics book out there and still, you moan and grown and say "I Know" as if that makes everything all right?
In what wonderland did you attend class?
And still you deflect so you don’t have to do the math.
Real mature of you.
Let me know when they pull your fingernails out and your ready to get serious, along with the math.
The best you have done so far is show to the world in print, your real education as well as semantics and dodging the bullet.
A small yawn at best.
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positronicle
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Chris Smith
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- Location: Bieber Ca.
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positronicle
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Chris Smith
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Let me guess, you think your winning the argument with out the need of that education?
Story of your life, fake it, they cant tell?
Do you really hope to get that education by arguing your way out of an education?
Do you really believe you know what your talking about, and others who are more that twice your age with ten times the education are just bluffing?
40 my ass, you have the education of a child and it shows.
Enjoy your life, stupidity is rampant so you wont have troubles finding a pal or two.
Oops, you found two here already.
So what are you going to do with your life?
You have already ruled out that education, what next, the circus?
Story of your life, fake it, they cant tell?
Do you really hope to get that education by arguing your way out of an education?
Do you really believe you know what your talking about, and others who are more that twice your age with ten times the education are just bluffing?
40 my ass, you have the education of a child and it shows.
Enjoy your life, stupidity is rampant so you wont have troubles finding a pal or two.
Oops, you found two here already.
So what are you going to do with your life?
You have already ruled out that education, what next, the circus?
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positronicle
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Forget the math since we don't have any formula for the air car (CAT) technology but here are the solutions to that math as quoted in the science channel spotlight:
3 carbon fiber tanks
52 gallons of air compressed to
4350PSI gets you
93 miles of range for a
4 hour run of the compressor costing
about $2 worth of electricity as long as you stay below
40MPH or you will go into gasoline hybrid mode.
200RPM was shown during the dynomometer test scene
but the engineer claimed lower RPM possible (implying decent torque)
and said the engine could stop in less than 1 Revolution.
I wish they quoted torque and/or acceleration as that would give a better idea of the power output but I think the numbers speak for themselves. The video of it driving around seemed normal enough for a low speed demo.
It was my impression these specs came from actual operating prototypes, not calculations or projections of what a production version might achieve. They also seemd to be jumbling specs from several models making it a bit more confusing than it could have been for a tech savvy croud.
No mention of the air being compressed to liquid state (and that state change itself consumes energy so its to be avoided). They do mention cold air at the exhaust which is obviously a result of the ideal gas law. Heat lost in compressing the gas is an issue for the compressor, not the car.
Deny the technology all you want, Just get out of its way before it runs you over.
3 carbon fiber tanks
52 gallons of air compressed to
4350PSI gets you
93 miles of range for a
4 hour run of the compressor costing
about $2 worth of electricity as long as you stay below
40MPH or you will go into gasoline hybrid mode.
200RPM was shown during the dynomometer test scene
but the engineer claimed lower RPM possible (implying decent torque)
and said the engine could stop in less than 1 Revolution.
I wish they quoted torque and/or acceleration as that would give a better idea of the power output but I think the numbers speak for themselves. The video of it driving around seemed normal enough for a low speed demo.
It was my impression these specs came from actual operating prototypes, not calculations or projections of what a production version might achieve. They also seemd to be jumbling specs from several models making it a bit more confusing than it could have been for a tech savvy croud.
No mention of the air being compressed to liquid state (and that state change itself consumes energy so its to be avoided). They do mention cold air at the exhaust which is obviously a result of the ideal gas law. Heat lost in compressing the gas is an issue for the compressor, not the car.
Deny the technology all you want, Just get out of its way before it runs you over.
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Chris Smith
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- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Bieber Ca.
The facts on the web aren’t stated even close,... good sales pitch but not even close.
The air pressure is up there with a liquid, meaning it is close to its premium, but all you have to do is take those figures, multiply them times the bottle size, [CF/ CI times the Bars of pressure] divide this into CI strokes into the CI size of your motor, set your RPMS, set your pressure on the regulator to get your HP from a stroke, and count the Cubic inch depletion VS the time it will take to empty the tank.
Still cant cheat the physics.
Your running times for a reasonable vehicle can be read into minutes, or even an hour depending on the weight of the car and the expelled HP going into it.
The cost is not dollars per hundred miles but more like dollars per mile.
The standard math says you put in two dollars in worth of electricity, you get back 2/3 of that total energy.
If the compressor is 5 hp, then expect 3 hp back.
If it takes 746 watts to make one HP, then 5 times this will be stored as Air, at a loss of 33 percent. 3 hp back
IF electricity is 7 cents per watt hour, times five HP, then all you can impart into a tank is 35 cents per hour, equaling exactly what you put in,... in the form of air.
5 Hp for the one hour, costing you 35 cents with a 33 percent loss.
3hp/ hours.
3 hp for one hour.
And were not even getting into the realities of loss.
The air pressure is up there with a liquid, meaning it is close to its premium, but all you have to do is take those figures, multiply them times the bottle size, [CF/ CI times the Bars of pressure] divide this into CI strokes into the CI size of your motor, set your RPMS, set your pressure on the regulator to get your HP from a stroke, and count the Cubic inch depletion VS the time it will take to empty the tank.
Still cant cheat the physics.
Your running times for a reasonable vehicle can be read into minutes, or even an hour depending on the weight of the car and the expelled HP going into it.
The cost is not dollars per hundred miles but more like dollars per mile.
The standard math says you put in two dollars in worth of electricity, you get back 2/3 of that total energy.
If the compressor is 5 hp, then expect 3 hp back.
If it takes 746 watts to make one HP, then 5 times this will be stored as Air, at a loss of 33 percent. 3 hp back
IF electricity is 7 cents per watt hour, times five HP, then all you can impart into a tank is 35 cents per hour, equaling exactly what you put in,... in the form of air.
5 Hp for the one hour, costing you 35 cents with a 33 percent loss.
3hp/ hours.
3 hp for one hour.
And were not even getting into the realities of loss.
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positronicle
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Chris Smith
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A full tank of air will expel itself at a 33 percent loss, the same amount of energy you put into it minus the loss. [Physics]
Gee that 5 hp compressor needed to pump the air in for two hours is really worth the 3 hp for two hours I got back?
If your into go carts, and if the go cart could drag the bottle.
I bet your amazed, but then glitter probably does it for you as well.
And as for your age, in the future, ask your daughter to do the math for you and save us the time.
So how much did a bottle of LOX or Air bottle weigh? Say 40 CF?
Gee that 5 hp compressor needed to pump the air in for two hours is really worth the 3 hp for two hours I got back?
If your into go carts, and if the go cart could drag the bottle.
I bet your amazed, but then glitter probably does it for you as well.
And as for your age, in the future, ask your daughter to do the math for you and save us the time.
So how much did a bottle of LOX or Air bottle weigh? Say 40 CF?
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