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 Post subject: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:01 am
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Location: USA,World
Since the changeover from analog to digital over-the-air TV broadcasting, I have barely watched any TV. For a while before I got this tablet PC connected to DSL Internet, I used to get one digital channel on an eight inch portable digital-receiving TV. That was to see the weather radar on a major TV station's weather side channel devoted to the weather. Now I can use my tablet and go to the National Weather Service Website.


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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:32 am 
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Unfortunately digital over-the-air TV broadcasting has not lived up to all the hype.

I've got a Omni Directional Antenna setup for my house.
I can pull in some 50 stations.
But because of my location, weather, traffic on a nearby highway.
It effects the signal strength, causing drop outs or picture freezes.

Before the great "Analog Shut Off".
I could get only 11 over-the-air stations.
I didn't get drop outs or picture freezes, maybe a snowy picture from the more distant stations, but they were view able.

Streaming Broadcast TV too your Tablet Computer has been around for awhile.
But the infrastructure is still is not in place yet.
Works fine if your in a major city, but is spotty in small cities or towns.

I live in a rural area, and only in the past year did the Copper DSL lines get upgraded to Optical Fiber.
But the maximum speed is only 24 Megabits.
So any hick-ups or mass connections on to the Central Office causes slow downs, dropped connections.
{Think Local Sporting Events, Political Convention, or some major news event.}
{DOS (D)enial (O)f (S)ervice attacks, or Cyber Attacks in general, Lightning.}


Well.......
Until network speed, and stable connections are available nation{world} wide.
I can't see Streaming Broadcast TV, or Stream Live Content in general, being viable.


Signed: Janitor Tzap


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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Location: USA,World
My general picture quality was much better during predigital broadcast days also. I could get about seven TV stations but just two after the conversion. I didn't really mind a bit of snow, or resolution limits of the NTSC signal. Those two stations had five separate channels between them, but only two out of those had content I cared for, one being the weather and radar image on that one channel I mentioned earlier.

The thing that got me thinking about this thread was how my phone land line and DSL provider called and wanted me to hook up to the fiber optic cable. But right now I am on DSL lite and prefer listening to National Public Radio to watching TV. The main thing that I need download speed for is when computer software updates itself. Otherwise just browsing and reading articles and looking at images is what I care about.

Lightning does tend to make my Internet connection drop if it is within about two miles. Before I obtained my own modem, it would drop out from lightning within about forty miles.


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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:11 pm
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Location: Maryland
Unfortunately the great decisions of government are often guided by greed.
There are many 'digitally dead' viewng areas, robbed of their few but free channel reception, that worked, and were forced to accept 100 channels of superior reception, that do not work. Look what happened to the battery, portable and handheld TV users. They were also robbed, but they got nothing.

Big business did get a windfall of dollars for the replacment sets and 'converters', all at the expense of our pockets, and an enormous landfill overburden. Also watch out for the hucksters that are selling us our "Free TV Reception' in the form of fancy but ineffectivey reincarnated coat hanger antennas. I guess we'll need to add that antique shred of aluminum foil off the antenna's edge at our expense too. Since history repeats; I suppose the 'whole house antennas' of 1950's are on the new horizon.

Really, why do we allow, accept, and permit all this when we know very well who are the perpetrators and the outcome?

<<end of THIS rant>>



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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:41 am 
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Location: NewJersey
Hi,

Can not help but agree with most of that. The simple answer is that the Politics are no longer for the people by the people, it's for the politicians by the politicians. This is very clear to me now because i hear some of them state that things to go after do not amount to what is good for people, but good for their party in elections. Their logic is that if they get elected then they can do what they think is right, but unfortunately to get elected they have to put that election ahead of other issues that really need to be fixed.
Some are more honest though, like the ones who will actually admit this. Recently i listened to one who said that they have to put the next election before the Russian ties to Trump investigation.
We almost have no hope except to hope that the ones that are there now can do something good for the country. Unfortunately it takes time to find out.

But you reminded me of a "field service" trip i had to make once too (other thread). We designed a sophisticated weighing machine complete with clear dome servo pop up top for a major pharmaceutical company for accurately measuring animal organs. There was a push button on the top that did a 'tare' weight and maybe a button to start the weighing process, and everyone that tried it in the lab found it to work reasonably well. Well wouldnt you know it, as soon as it got to the site where it was to be used, the gal who operated it pushed the button a little differently than anyone else, so i got elected to go out to Indiana to modify the machine so that it worked with her unusual touch. Cost about 2 or 3 days time and of course plane fare.
It's amazing what can go wrong.

More to the point of the thread...
I too realized that digital signals cause worse problems when the reception isnt good. The dropouts can cause complete lack of reception. The analog counterpart would just show a little interference but at least you could see and hear something.



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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:13 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:01 am
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Location: (somewhere), Afghanistan; from Rochester, NY
Yes, learned long, long ago that analog degrades more gracefully than digital.

Or,

As signal to noise ratio goes down, digital remains closer to perfect, then suddenly becomes unusable. Analog stays usable long after that.

Does not only apply to TV.

Cheers,



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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:01 am 
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Location: USA / North Carolina / Fayetteville
i found out in a bad way that the digital tv was not a move for the good.. not in my opinion.
the Government gave a lousy $20.00 for people to buy a converter box.. everyone thought ok, you'll be able to still pick up all your channels as before.. WRONG.. when analog went away so did the power output.. many people that had channels before had hardly any.. and so they were forced to get a better antenna or a amplifier or both.. even buy a outdoor set up..
you have to realize that most people that have antenna tv, mainly are poor people.. otherwise they'd have cable.
true that some live in areas where there is no cable.. but still we all were ripped off.. the $20.00 for the converter was a drop in the bucket.. the new antenna set up and amp cost way more..
Thanks Government.....


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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:43 am 
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dacflyer wrote:
i found out in a bad way that the digital tv was not a move for the good.. not in my opinion.
the Government gave a lousy $20.00 for people to buy a converter box.. everyone thought ok, you'll be able to still pick up all your channels as before.. WRONG.. when analog went away so did the power output.. many people that had channels before had hardly any.. and so they were forced to get a better antenna or a amplifier or both.. even buy a outdoor set up..
you have to realize that most people that have antenna tv, mainly are poor people.. otherwise they'd have cable.
true that some live in areas where there is no cable.. but still we all were ripped off.. the $20.00 for the converter was a drop in the bucket.. the new antenna set up and amp cost way more..
Thanks Government.....


I suppose that their main push was due to the efficiency increase, especially for high definition. But, like you say, if you can't view it at all it's not much efficiency.

There was probably some incentive to free up frequencies to accomodate commercial band-lust. A lot of that still lies fallow however ...


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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Location: USA / North Carolina / Fayetteville
we all still got ripped off...lol


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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:55 am 
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What is unknown, or forgotten, by most people are the huge dollar signs connected to the FCC Spectrum Auction of the old analog frequencies.
Cell phone and other users grabbed up the gold mines and we got the shaft.
Follow the money.....



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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:02 am 
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Location: Mideast USA
Hi Len.
What frequencies that were analog TV from 54MHz up to 800MHz for channel 69, were freed for other grabbers ?
Digital TV broadcasting is still 54MHz to 800 MHz for channel 69.
Cell phones did have their 800MHz during the analog TV era, later added the cell higher bands.

Not all the analog TV channels on the spectrum were in use/filled at a given location/area; that may have been a financial reason for the FCC to rearrange some spectrum for auction, but equally, not all digital TV channels are used/assigned in all areas.

Which spectrum changed hands ?



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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:47 am 
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Hi,
Here's a place to start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2008_wireless_spectrum_auction



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 Post subject: Re: Effects of loss of analog TV broadcasting on viewing
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Location: Mideast USA
Thanks, Len.
Interesting, the Wikipedia talks about channels 52 to 69 passing to other hands; but those channels are supposed to still be DTV.

----> http://www.interfacebus.com/digital-fre ... nnels.html

Does the auction mean DTV has no channel 52 and above ? My favorite channel was

----> http://www.stationindex.com/tv/callsign/kteh

Am missing something here... 54 changed to 50 ?



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